Game Thread Nov 22, 2023 08:00PM MT: Jazz at Trail Blazers

[jom2003]

Not sure how I feel about this. I agree with it a lot. But it felt like we made severe missteps with the Gobert/Mitchell team that limited its ceiling.


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who knows what might've happened had we drafted Herb Jones or Jaden McDaniels onto that team?

we may never know.

or we can just watch the T'wolves this season.

 

[The Thriller]

who knows what might've happened had we drafted Herb Jones or Jaden McDaniels onto that team?

we may never know.

or we can just watch the T'wolves this season.

Desmond Bane or McDaniels instead of Doka. Herb Jones would’ve also been nice. Just bad pick after bad pick kills this franchise since they don’t score FAs to compensate for their poor drafts

 

[Agent#00]

Not sure how I feel about this. I agree with it a lot. But it felt like we made severe missteps with the Gobert/Mitchell team that limited its ceiling. And now it feels like we’re just making excuses for not tanking or drafting correctly last year and playing the rookies this year.

If we’re planning for the future then guys like THT, Collins, and Sexton shouldn’t be playing ahead of our rookies. And if the rookies aren’t ready then what the hell did we do at last year’s draft?

I like Tony but he often churns out David Locke like propaganda. It makes me appreciate Andy Larsen much more.

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I still think stepping away from dm/Rudy/Conley era was the right direction. What we have right now is the harsh reality of rebuild and will continue for several years. There will be missteps along the way. DA said they are looking at a 3 year rebuild but it looks more like a 5 year to me.

 

[porfavors]

 

[jom2003]

Desmond Bane or McDaniels instead of Doka. Herb Jones would’ve also been nice. Just bad pick after bad pick kills this franchise since they don’t score FAs to compensate for their poor drafts

this has become a trend. every era we would start off strong with a couple of homeruns (Stock/Malone, AK/DWill, Rudy/Mitchell) then follow it up with some historic blunders that eventually cost us the championship.

 

[Release the Kraken]

At least I had the foresight not to bet the over again this season. Kinda wish I hadn’t shelled out for league pass again though. I mean there’s Minnesota that looks totally legit, but I guess I just don’t enjoy random NBA Basketball like I used to. It would be really cool to see Gobert and Conley get one however.

Rebuilds suck a$$ from a fan perspective that’s for sure. Seems like a million miles away sometimes - sometimes I wonder if we really have any building blocks that will actually translate to that next level. I know I’m too pessimistic.

Happy Turkey Day regardless!

 

[Step-Back Hook]

Lauri seems to be 125tth in the league with touches per game: 30.4. So he averages 24 with 30 touches. Collins has 25 touches a game. These two are two of our more efficient scorers as well.

I might be wrong here but something is not adding up.

 

[KqWIN]

Lauri seems to be 125tth in the league with touches per game: 30.4. So he averages 24 with 30 touches. Collins has 25 touches a game. These two are two of our more efficient scorers as well.

I might be wrong here but something is not adding up.

Those are two players who do not and cannot play with the ball in their hands. You can’t just give them the ball and expect things to happen. That’s not their game. They are play finishers, not creators, and our actual ball handlers are the worst in the league.

 

[KqWIN]

Not sure how I feel about this. I agree with it a lot. But it felt like we made severe missteps with the Gobert/Mitchell team that limited its ceiling. And now it feels like we’re just making excuses for not tanking or drafting correctly last year and playing the rookies this year.

If we’re planning for the future then guys like THT, Collins, and Sexton shouldn’t be playing ahead of our rookies. And if the rookies aren’t ready then what the hell did we do at last year’s draft?

I like Tony but he often churns out David Locke like propaganda. It makes me appreciate Andy Larsen much more.

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Part of the consideration of trading Don/Rudy is that tanking is not as simple as it seems. Lauri Markannen having a breakout season can foil those plans alone. It’s presented as a fool proof plan, but it really does not guarantee results at all. You’re not even guaranteed to be able to “tank” as we’ve seen.

It seemed very difficult to build more around Don/Rudy, especially after squandering every asset and chance we had over and over…But I don’t think people stopped and considered how hard it is to actually get to the point where you have players like Don/Rudy on your team at the same time and both locked into long term deals.

 

[Step-Back Hook]

Those are two players who do not and cannot play with the ball in their hands. You can’t just give them the ball and expect things to happen. That’s not their game. They are play finishers, not creators, and our actual ball handlers are the worst in the league.

While this is true it most of the time needs just the guard lend him a ball and when he gives it back the guard is now more open bc defenses rn after Lauri. He does not need to have to do a lot with the ball just lending it once or twice in a possession opens up their game.

Also I wrote it wrong : I meant passes received - not touches. And it does not matter can he do sae things with ball like Jokic or Durant. Lauri does not need the ball as much before he is getting better at some things. But getting JUST 30 times the ball passed to teams best scorer and an all star is ludicrous. It is laughable. It is beyond dumb.

 

[HermanG]

Its starting to look more and more like Hardy is a pumpkin. A lot of things are excusable because of the lack of quality in the roster, but what is not excusable from the HC is the fact that we come out flat and get into a double digit hole in almost every single first quarter. Runs happen and you cannot avoid them, but if you are only giving up runs at the start then your team, lineups and/or game plan are badly prepared. That doest look random anymore.

Last year there was a chip on the shoulder which at time looked like we got something to build on but sadly now looks like it just made this team overachieve in a big way. There was also leadership and accountability on the court provided by Conley, but that isnt explaining the drastic difference alone. Right now we have mid talent shooting guards running rampart and doing anything except playing team ball and sloppy defensive breakdowns where no wrists get slapped.

THT, Sexton and Clarkson are not winning pieces. KO is a luxury item you can only afford if you are great at defense, and we arent. Collins is putting up box scores that look good but the dude misses 2-4 bunnies per game and cannot defend the rim.

On a more positive note (had to reach to find some):
Ochai is the one player aside from Lauri and Key who looks like a non-gimmicky player who can contribute in todays NBA. Key needs to develop his defense to become a real positive contributor, but I still have very high hopes for his offense as he looks the part in every aspect except reading his own driving lanes and rim finishing, which is something he doesnt do really well.

 

[infection]

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Which one of you is at the Portland game wildin with this jersey on?

I’ve considered having one of those made but I think I’m going to do a Seikaly jersey. Eventually.

But I don’t think people stopped and considered how hard it is to actually get to the point where you have players like Don/Rudy on your team at the same time and both locked into long term deals.

To me it’s like a situation where you do something like spend x amount on something, where x is fairly sizable, and then you need to spend y to make x work, and y itself is a decent expense, but pales in comparison, so you opt out of y because of x’s expense and end up sinking x in the process. We found ourselves there with all of our expended assets, so we cringed more and more with having to part with anything that could compromise “the future,” failing to recognize that “the future” had such a small probability of looking nearly as bright as the then present.

The bottom line? Donovan is still under contract for two more years, not counting player option. Rudy for longer. We picked up Lauri (as an afterthought in the deal) and look at what we had. Could have hypothetically (based on them market value) picked up Lauri in a different way? I’m not saying that as a realistic hypothetical, but more a mental exercise of knowing that it could have been possible to have moves that come up that can work out that you wouldn’t have anticipated. The odds of finding one more piece, especially with each season replenishing another future pick, just seems so much more drastically likely than returning to contention by hitting on numerous different components of a rebuild where the odds of even returning to where you were would be an exception and not the rule.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

who knows what might've happened had we drafted Herb Jones or Jaden McDaniels onto that team?

we may never know.

or we can just watch the T'wolves this season.

That's what i'm doing following both. I will probably mostly go for replay for jazz game as i do not expect anything good this year. So i can watch with no frustration and look more the detail.
Minny is fun to watch, lot of good defense, the NBA i like. For us i think we will have a fear battle for bottom 3 at West with Portland and SA. Hope we win it .

 

[str8line]

Its starting to look more and more like Hardy is a pumpkin. A lot of things are excusable because of the lack of quality in the roster, but what is not excusable from the HC is the fact that we come out flat and get into a double digit hole in almost every single first quarter. Runs happen and you cannot avoid them, but if you are only giving up runs at the start then your team, lineups and/or game plan are badly prepared. That doest look random anymore.

Last year there was a chip on the shoulder which at time looked like we got something to build on but sadly now looks like it just made this team overachieve in a big way. There was also leadership and accountability on the court provided by Conley, but that isnt explaining the drastic difference alone. Right now we have mid talent shooting guards running rampart and doing anything except playing team ball and sloppy defensive breakdowns where no wrists get slapped.

THT, Sexton and Clarkson are not winning pieces. KO is a luxury item you can only afford if you are great at defense, and we arent. Collins is putting up box scores that look good but the dude misses 2-4 bunnies per game and cannot defend the rim.

On a more positive note (had to reach to find some):
Ochai is the one player aside from Lauri and Key who looks like a non-gimmicky player who can contribute in todays NBA. Key needs to develop his defense to become a real positive contributor, but I still have very high hopes for his offense as he looks the part in every aspect except reading his own driving lanes and rim finishing, which is something he doesnt do really well.

I agree about accountability. When Will made the focus TO's for several games guess what, we made less turnovers. Clarkson had 7 TO's last night.

On the flip side Will doesn't seem to be aware of riding the hot hand. THT should have gotten more burn the other night.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The roster just doesn't fit together. There's really no need to point blame. Ainge put the roster together in a way that they couldn't win. He just hoping he can make some more mid season trades.

 

[Tanktastic]

I still think stepping away from dm/Rudy/Conley era was the right direction. What we have right now is the harsh reality of rebuild and will continue for several years. There will be missteps along the way. DA said they are looking at a 3 year rebuild but it looks more like a 5 year to me.

Almost all "rebuilds" are 15-20 years and only end because someone gets lucky. The Jazz aren't rebuilding. They are a bad basketball team with some assets. You can wish to win the lottery, but most don't.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Almost all "rebuilds" are 15-20 years and only end because someone gets lucky. The Jazz aren't rebuilding. They are a bad basketball team with some assets. You can wish to win the lottery, but most don't.

Yeah, no one wants to lose but it's what we are doing.

The Jazz have enough assets to do a quick turnaround if they want to. They aren't going to force it though and use the down time to accumulate more assets and figure out who the keepers are.

 

[David Hume]

going tonight

seen Oppenheimer ?
more telling of human suffering and angst Kinda like being a Jazz fan

Ainge: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I actually want a picture of you standing under a “welcome to central time zone” sign.

In Texas… San Antonio. Visiting family and these games are way too late.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Part of the consideration of trading Don/Rudy is that tanking is not as simple as it seems. Lauri Markannen having a breakout season can foil those plans alone. It’s presented as a fool proof plan, but it really does not guarantee results at all. You’re not even guaranteed to be able to “tank” as we’ve seen.

It seemed very difficult to build more around Don/Rudy, especially after squandering every asset and chance we had over and over…But I don’t think people stopped and considered how hard it is to actually get to the point where you have players like Don/Rudy on your team at the same time and both locked into long term deals.

Who are these folks presenting tanking as a fool proof plan?