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I understand the logic behind “he needs to be a difference maker that makes X difference”. I also believe it is textbook “easier said than done” mentality.

You can say it will be extremely hard to build a championship contender with Trae. I think it’s hard to disagree with that. But the other side of that is that it is going to be extremely hard to do so no matter what path you take.

There are easier players to build around. But the reason why we’re talking about Trae in the first place is that it’s semi realistic to actually get him. If you think Trae is not the right path, I think you at least have to acknowledge the extreme difficulty in acquiring X player who is easier to build around.
Good post.
I have been talking **** about trae here but he is a very good player. Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have him. I would just rather have a lot of other all star type players over him

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It's just a lot easier to pick at Trae than "mystery player". Mystery player is great until you actually account for the difficulty in acquiring them and also consider the reality that mystery player will likely have flaws as well. Not saying Trae is the greatest option either, but every option is difficult and imperfect. To be overrated, you need to be rated in the first place. When I look at the credit Trae gets, the accolades he's been given, and the evaluation of him (in this thread in particular)...I just don't see a player who is overrated and I would actually lean towards the opinion that people are too harsh him and not giving him enough credit for the good stuff he does.

For example, a lot of the criticisms I see in this thread are so heavily team performance related. It's not necessarily bad to account for team success, but let's also remember he's reached the same peak as the Jazz franchise has had in decades, he hasn't played on great rosters, and his adjusted +/- stuff is actually pretty damn good great (especially on offense obvs). Again, not perfect, but people are hammering on him for not doing enough on offense when his 3 year offensive LA-RAPM is 7th out of all players. His single season offensive RAPM stuff is consistently amazing. RAPM isn't perfect, but it's a way to assess an individual vs the team. It's not fair to dump on him for how his team performs when the numbers strongly indicate he's been carrying that team. Like go ahead and be harsh on his defense because he deserves it, but at the same time I think you also have to give him his roses for the offensive impact he's had. If he's not elevating his team's offense enough, you can count the guys who are with like one hand. And to clear, we want those guys, but are we actually going to get them?

I actually think Zach Lavine is a better option at the high salary and for his relative acquisition cost....but it's only fair to give Trae his due.
Right... but to be the guy that is worth the acquisition costs with all his deficiencies on defense he needs to be one of the handful of guys that does elevate his teams offense. He sucks up so much of the offensive oxygen and will be a giant bullseye on defense. There's enough smoke about the other locker room stuff that I believe it.

Its not like he's had trash rosters... he's elevated those rosters for sure. I am not saying he's bad. I'm saying he's not the guy to push half of the chips in on.

I'll take the mystery man.
 
It's just a lot easier to pick at Trae than "mystery player". Mystery player is great until you actually account for the difficulty in acquiring them and also consider the reality that mystery player will likely have flaws as well. Not saying Trae is the greatest option either, but every option is difficult and imperfect. To be overrated, you need to be rated in the first place. When I look at the credit Trae gets, the accolades he's been given, and the evaluation of him (in this thread in particular)...I just don't see a player who is overrated and I would actually lean towards the opinion that people are too harsh him and not giving him enough credit for the good stuff he does.

For example, a lot of the criticisms I see in this thread are so heavily team performance related. It's not necessarily bad to account for team success, but let's also remember he's reached the same peak as the Jazz franchise has had in decades, he hasn't played on great rosters, and his adjusted +/- stuff is actually pretty damn good great (especially on offense obvs). Again, not perfect, but people are hammering on him for not doing enough on offense when his 3 year offensive LA-RAPM is 7th out of all players. His single season offensive RAPM stuff is consistently amazing. RAPM isn't perfect, but it's a way to assess an individual vs the team. It's not fair to dump on him for how his team performs when the numbers strongly indicate he's been carrying that team. Like go ahead and be harsh on his defense because he deserves it, but at the same time I think you also have to give him his roses for the offensive impact he's had. If he's not elevating his team's offense enough, you can count the guys who are with like one hand. And to clear, we want those guys, but are we actually going to get them?

I actually think Zach Lavine is a better option at the high salary and for his relative acquisition cost....but it's only fair to give Trae his due.
He has been called a superstar multiple times in this thread by one of the more knowledgeable posters and compared to harder who was an MVP level player and went to 15 straight all star games. And he makes over 40 million per year. He is overrated

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Also its just the way Trae plays. It would make Walker more happy I'm sure but it sucks to just watch a guy cook like that. Its part of the reason dudes seem to want out of Atlanta.
 
Right... but to be the guy that is worth the acquisition costs with all his deficiencies on defense he needs to be one of the handful of guys that does elevate his teams offense. He sucks up so much of the offensive oxygen and will be a giant bullseye on defense. There's enough smoke about the other locker room stuff that I believe it.

Its not like he's had trash rosters... he's elevated those rosters for sure. I am not saying he's bad. I'm saying he's not the guy to push half of the chips in on.

I'll take the mystery man.

Like I said, defensively be as harsh as you want because he does deserve it. I just think people are being too critical of his offense and using very poor arguments to do so. When there are criticisms of a player where only 3-5 players could escape those same criticism I that's being little ridiculous. There's only a handful of players who have been a better offensive player and elevated their team as much. If you don't think Trae elevates his team's offense enough you're down to very, very few players. Not a criticism that holds water and when people are beating that drum that makes me think he's being held to an unreasonable standard.

A player is a sum of his offense and defense, of course, but I don't think people are giving him enough credit for his offense.

I don't mind mystery man, but if you're going to do so I think you need to evaluate Trae fairly and also evaluate mystery man fairly. I'm not saying you in particular are doing this, but I think mystery man is being highly overrated in this thread because there is not enough consideration given to the probability of actually getting mystery man and the reality that mystery man likely has flaws as well.
 
Like I said, defensively be as harsh as you want because he does deserve it. I just think people are being too critical of his offense and using very poor arguments to do so. When there are criticisms of a player where only 3-5 players could escape those same criticism I that's being little ridiculous. There's only a handful of players who have been a better offensive player and elevated their team as much. If you don't think Trae elevates his team's offense enough you're down to very, very few players. Not a criticism that holds water and when people are beating that drum that makes me think he's being held to an unreasonable standard.

A player is a sum of his offense and defense, of course, but I don't think people are giving him enough credit for his offense.

I don't mind mystery man, but if you're going to do so I think you need to evaluate Trae fairly and also evaluate mystery man fairly. I'm not saying you in particular are doing this, but I think mystery man is being highly overrated in this thread because there is not enough consideration given to the probability of actually getting mystery man and the reality that mystery man likely has flaws as well.
Are you saying he’s a top 5 offensive player?
 
Are you saying he’s a top 5 offensive player?

I'm saying that the things people are criticizing him for, for example not actually elevating his team enough on offense, he actually grades out as a top 5-10 player. People are either ignoring that, or saying otherwise with poor arguments. I don't think it's more valid to use his team's performance as a whole to say he doesn't make an impact when we have several ways of evaluating the player independently from his teammates. At the very least, it should be some combination of the two.
 
I think the Knicks want Simone + Clarkson. For that they might move two picks or one pick and multiple 2nds.
Both dudes are in a slump. I would do it

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It would take two first to get Simone and Clarkson.
Simone is a two way wing (rare commodity) and is better than Grimes IMHO. He is an upgrade and Thibs will love him - he's our hardest playing player. JC is secondary ball handler and can adapt. JC + Simone together is a huge boost to NYK bench.

You do this and you trade KO to the Sixers for a million 2nds. Maybe you get in on the ATL action, maybe you do LAL. Lots of choices.
 
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