2024 NBA Draft Mega Thread

[Handlogten's Heros]

Say a normal skill dev coach costs $150k or so... Say you pay the shot guru $2M. Maybe the only thing he has is belief because he worked with a bunch of dudes. Maybe its all placebo... Even placebo effect has an effect.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

OKC before hiring Chip - 30th in the league in 3 pt shooting %
OKC 2 years after hiring Chip - 1st in the league in 3 pt shooting %

They added a few dudes but you can just look at the improvement of several dudes and see the success.

If dudes have multiple notable successes then I'm going to believe they are doing something right. While there may be no secret sauce I'd go ahead and pay the premium for the guys who have a track record of massive success to find out.

It's also about who isnt on the Thunder anymore. No more Poku and Bazley shooting sub 30% on volume.

 

[KqWIN]

I mean if there are no expert skill coaches we should just buy everyone Steph's online program and hire a few ball boys to work as rebounders.

I’m saying every one of these players has access to expert skill coaches. Some improve, some do not. Having this shooting guru instead of another is not making the difference.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Say a normal skill dev coach costs $150k or so... Say you pay the shot guru $2M. Maybe the only thing he has is belief because he worked with a bunch of dudes. Maybe its all placebo... Even placebo effect has an effect.

I'll agree on the placebo thing being huge.

I just dont know who is out there who is that person. Engelland is the only person any of us know outside of Lethal Shooter (who is more a celebrity IG trainer). Who is the widely accepted guru out there you can go hire? Anyone who has a name is making more than 2 million off private clients.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's also about who isnt on the Thunder anymore. No more Poku and Bazley shooting sub 30% on volume.

Yup... its also about adding some good shooters... and also helping a bunch of dudes improve. Its obvious he is doing something right... if I had infinity draft picks I'd be investing a lot in player dev (no idea what we are currently investing there... this is not an indictment).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'll agree on the placebo thing being huge.

I just dont know who is out there who is that person. Engelland is the only person any of us know outside of Lethal Shooter (who is more a celebrity IG trainer). Who is the widely accepted guru out there you can go hire? Anyone who has a name is making more than 2 million off private clients.

Vinson the guy in NO is gaining a big rep.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yup... its also about adding some good shooters... and also helping a bunch of dudes improve. Its obvious he is doing something right... if I had infinity draft picks I'd be investing a lot in player dev (no idea what we are currently investing there... this is not an indictment).

Yeah but what evidence do you have the Jazz arent doing that?

Arent you a Sexton stan now? Is Sexton's 3pt shot development not a testament to Utah's player development? Supposedly Sexton spent most of his time in Utah working with staff.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I’m saying every one of these players has access to expert skill coaches. Some improve, some do not. Having this shooting guru instead of another is not making the difference.

Yes - access is great. If I have access for a month to a personal trainer I will improve my health. If I have access to that person every day and am constantly working with them it absolutely will make a bigger difference. As a team I want the guy in house every day. Might also save dudes going to the Fultz shot dr.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah but what evidence do you have the Jazz arent doing that?

Arent you a Sexton stan now? Is Sexton's 3pt shot development not a testament to Utah's player development? Supposedly Sexton spent most of his time in Utah working with staff.

Literally read the post you responded to and you'll have your answer.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'll agree on the placebo thing being huge.

I just dont know who is out there who is that person. Engelland is the only person any of us know outside of Lethal Shooter (who is more a celebrity IG trainer). Who is the widely accepted guru out there you can go hire? Anyone who has a name is making more than 2 million off private clients.

No idea how or what they make but if you are making $2M off private clients you are working with a ton of dudes. If you can make that with your focus being on 5-10 dudes it might still be very appealing.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No idea what we are doing so maybe we are at the forefront of this. I just think with as much as teams invest in head coaches (sometimes having 2-3 on payroll cuz they fired dudes) I would think there would be a bidding war for some of these dudes at some point.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No idea how or what they make but if you are making $2M off private clients you are working with a ton of dudes. If you can make that with your focus being on 5-10 dudes it might still be very appealing.

Guys like Brickley, Hanlen, and Lethal Shooter have massive social media followings, brand deals, etc along with working with the top tier pros and celebrity clients. I have no idea how much they make, but I would think it's over 2 million a year. I would also assume being part of a team would limit their entrepreneur abilities to market themselves. They also dont have to live in OKC or Salt Lake City.

 

[KqWIN]

Yes - access is great. If I have access for a month to a personal trainer I will improve my health. If I have access to that person every day and am constantly working with them it absolutely will make a bigger difference. As a team I want the guy in house every day. Might also save dudes going to the Fultz shot dr.

You are not an NBA player. Comparing yourself to them does not have the effect you think it does lol. These guys have their literal team, as in the one they play for, and their personal team, as in the guys they choose to put around them everyday (could be the same) all day everyday. Their ability to develop shooting is not due to a gap in coaching.

I don’t care that an article was written about whoever or that this certain trainer has an IG following and that’s why we know them. We can agree to disagree….but there is no “shot doctor” who has the special sauce that will make the difference.

I refuse to believe it’s the difference in shooting coaches that makes players better shooters. It’s the innate potential to improve + work out put into improving.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Guys like Brickley, Hanlen, and Lethal Shooter have massive social media followings, brand deals, etc along with working with the top tier pros and celebrity clients. I have no idea how much they make, but I would think it's over 2 million a year. I would also assume being part of a team would limit their entrepreneur abilities to market themselves. They also dont have to live in OKC or Salt Lake City.

Chip and Vinson should go private then. I am sure there are a ton of side hustle camps and **** even working with a team.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You are not an NBA player. Comparing yourself to them does not have the effect you think it does lol. These guys have their literal team, as in the one they play for, and their personal team, as in the guys they choose to put around them everyday (could be the same) all day everyday. Their ability to develop shooting is not due to a gap in coaching.

I don’t care that an article was written about whoever or that this certain trainer has an IG following and that’s why we know them. We can agree to disagree….but there is no “shot doctor” who has the special sauce that will make the difference.

I refuse to believe it’s the difference in shooting coaches that makes players better shooters. It’s the innate potential to improve + work out put into improving.

HH loves comparing his athletic life to NBA players, it's the funniest thing.

I'm sure there are a group of assistants/skill trainers who are better than others at coaching players to be shooters. I just doubt that it's some super small exclusive group. NBA players have done an incredibly ****ing good job of improving their shooting over the last 10 years so it's crazy to think teams arent investing heavily into this. It's not like it's 2013 and we are a team behind the curve on the shooting era. Until I see some wild regressions or stagnations on multiple players, I just dont see the issue. Everyone on Utah has gotten better at shooting for the most part.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You are not an NBA player. Comparing yourself to them does not have the effect you think it does lol. These guys have their literal team, as in the one they play for, and their personal team, as in the guys they choose to put around them everyday (could be the same) all day everyday. Their ability to develop shooting is not due to a gap in coaching.

I don’t care that an article was written about whoever or that this certain trainer has an IG following and that’s why we know them. We can agree to disagree….but there is no “shot doctor” who has the special sauce that will make the difference.

I refuse to believe it’s the difference in shooting coaches that makes players better shooters. It’s the innate potential to improve + work out put into improving.

Was merely giving an example of something irl... not trying to compare myself lol.

Not everyone has the Donny Mitchell team around them. There will be different levels of teaching and different philosophies... coaches are like any teacher. Some of the dudes around these guys become the actual problems. They may have the same curriculum but may be better at teaching it. Is every head coach the same? Do any have the secret sauce? Why are some wildly successful and others not so much. I mean NBA teams copy playbooks and all sorts of ****. Why doesn't every coach and their team of assistants always get the best out of the players?

Believe what you want. There are MANY factors that can affect how successful a player is at learning shooting or any other skill. If coaching is 10th on the list of important things... cool I would invest a ton. If its 3rd on the list... cool I would invest a ton.

And I don't know what we are or aren't doing. We've had guys improve here.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I'm not concerned about his shot at all. In highschool he seemed to have a ton of confidence in his outside shot and I think with an offseason of getting up a ton of shots he will be back to that level.

My issues with Castle:
** His athleticism won't be a big advantage for him at the NBA level.
** He probably won't get to the rim as easily. I get that he's got a mid-range game, but those aren't considered high-value looks.
** He's not a lead ball handler who beats defenders at this stage, though he is a ball mover. He would likely play off the ball for most teams and secondary playmake.
** He's a reluctant shooter from distance at the current stage. Teams will probably sag on him and dare him to shoot until he makes them guard.

I think he'll be a solid player overall. I just don't think he's a definite starter and a top-10 guy. I think he's more of a mid-teens or maybe late-teens guy. I think it would be hard to draft Castle ahead of someone like Knecht or Filipowski who have clear, high-value roles and a definite path to becoming starters. Now if there's just something special about the way Castle competes, and you think he can develop himself into the next Jimmy Butler, then great. I just think that's a risk that pushes him a bit later in the draft. And outside of that scenario happening, I'm wondering where's the upside? Is he Bruce Brown? Is he Justise Winslow?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

HH loves comparing his athletic life to NBA players, it's the funniest thing.

Wasn't really a comparison.. could have said anyone hires a trainer long term vs going to a bootcamp for a few weeks will realize benefits. This is not something I have even done in real life. But I get that you are obsessed with me and finding some fault in everything I say.

 

[KqWIN]

Was merely giving an example of something irl... not trying to compare myself lol.

Not everyone has the Donny Mitchell team around them. There will be different levels of teaching and different philosophies... coaches are like any teacher. Some of the dudes around these guys become the actual problems. They may have the same curriculum but may be better at teaching it. Is every head coach the same? Do any have the secret sauce? Why are some wildly successful and others not so much. I mean NBA teams copy playbooks and all sorts of ****. Why doesn't every coach and their team of assistants always get the best out of the players?

Believe what you want. There are MANY factors that can affect how successful a player is at learning shooting or any other skill. If coaching is 10th on the list of important things... cool I would invest a ton. If its 3rd on the list... cool I would invest a ton.

And I don't know what we are or aren't doing. We've had guys improve here.

Too each their own… I have an extremely hard time believing it’s access to coaching that makes NBA able to develop or not.

HH loves comparing his athletic life to NBA players, it's the funniest thing.

I'm sure there are a group of assistants/skill trainers who are better than others at coaching players to be shooters. I just doubt that it's some super small exclusive group. NBA players have done an incredibly ****ing good job of improving their shooting over the last 10 years so it's crazy to think teams arent investing heavily into this. It's not like it's 2013 and we are a team behind the curve on the shooting era. Until I see some wild regressions or stagnations on multiple players, I just dont see the issue. Everyone on Utah has gotten better at shooting for the most part.

My thoughts exactly. I just find it hard to believe that NBA aren’t mining gold when they could. It’s not like wealthy/poor adolescents having different access to training and opportunities. It’s sure as hell not like you or I having access to a good personal trainer haha. This is the NBA. Everybody has access. If each team’s shot doctor had such a big impact, it would not be some unknown thing.

It honestly kind of reminds me of when P3 was being shoved down our throats. What was that, 5+ years ago? Like I’m sure that is actually a good sports performance program which has helped players improved. But I stg Locke was treating it like witchcraft. In reality, the reason we knew about them is because they were the best at producing headlines and things to talk about. Grayson Allen having soft hand pads and ****. P3 probably does good work, but their impact was almost certainly overstated. Getting back to your initial point, I think marketing is the major thing at play.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Get Collin Murray Boyles with a shooting guru tho.

If he had any kind of jumper he's an interesting prospect. Absolutely bullied Arkansas today. None of what he did would really work in the NBA, but he's very good at it.