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Will Hardy Extension

KqWIN said:
It’s hard to have an opinion of him as a coach. I think he’s probably a good offensive coach, but also a questionable defensive coach. My biggest takeaway is that we’re in this tanking thing is for the long haul.
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Yep. We have also seen inconsistent player development from him. Kessler and Ochai both regressed significantly their second season and we saw Key stagnate last year rather than get better. It was nice to see Brice start to build some consistency at the end of the year but I think that has more to do with him being force fed minutes rather than Hardy actually liking him. Hopefully I am wrong about that because I think he can be a 6th man caliber scorer off the bench.
 
Feels like a bribe to get him to be willing to tank a lot more.

In terms of results, Hardy has shown literally nothing, but I'm not sure what could be expected on a team trying to lose. Back to back last place finishes in defense with Walker Kessler (and Kris Dunn one year as well!) is basically unprecedented. You don't finish last in defense with a serviceable defensive center. His schemes are absolutely terrible, but the bigger issue is that none of his guys play hard because the team has told them to lose so idk.
 
stitches said:
Agreed... it still doesn't mean they are right about it. I don't mind this extension... I think he's done a good job when we were trying to win and... he did a arguably even better job when we were trying to lose. It's no money out of my pocket and it's no money on the Jazz' salary cap. So... whatever...
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I guess I just trust DA to know a coach when he sees one.

And for the questions on defense, plenty of teams hire a "defensive coordinator" type coach to make their defense what it is.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I guess I just trust DA to know a coach when he sees one.

And for the questions on defense, plenty of teams hire a "defensive coordinator" type coach to make their defense what it is.
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Okay, but he lead the team to back to back last place finishes and none of the guys ever play hard for him.

He had very few opportunities to show much over the last three years but the results are really bad, lol.

Good move for Hardy as he was being pretty obviously set up as a scapegoat for Ainge to use and the Jazz have basically ruined his career for other teams. But a six year extension coming off back to back last place finishes in defense, an 18 win season, and dozens of press conferences complaining that he can't get young players to try is completely unprecedented.
 
HadAnEffectHere said:
Okay, but he lead the team to back to back last place finishes and none of the guys ever play hard for him.

He had very few opportunities to show much over the last three years but the results are really bad, lol.

Good move for Hardy as he was being pretty obviously set up as a scapegoat for Ainge to use and the Jazz have basically ruined his career for other teams. But a six year extension coming off back to back last place finishes in defense, an 18 win season, and dozens of press conferences complaining that he can't get young players to try is completely unprecedented.
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Ruined his career? He could have had the Spurs job if he wanted lmfao
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
The players like him and respond to him. That's important at this stage of the rebuild. He also seems to get the most he can from the talent he's had to work with.
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But like... When do they respond to him?

Hardy's only notable press conferences this year were him complaining about how Sensabaugh and Keyonte don't play hard for him.

Hardy's major success this season was getting everyone on the team to mail in the season.
 
HadAnEffectHere said:
But like... When do they respond to him?

Hardy's only notable press conferences this year were him complaining about how Sensabaugh and Keyonte don't play hard for him.

Hardy's major success this season was getting everyone on the team to mail in the season.
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Amidst the tanking, there were some real positives. Walker had a really solid season, leading the league in blocks, FG% and offensive rebounds. He was consistent all year. Brice has come a long way with improving his body, playing faster, moving the ball, and showing at least some effort on defense. Filipowski got the freedom to show a lot of his game towards the end of the year. John Collins had a career year and was a good soldier. And yeah, Will masterfully steered the Jazz to the worst record in the league.
 
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I like this extension. Offensively, I think he can be a good coach. Defensively, it's really hard to judge bc of two factors: firstly, Jazz has been tanking either half the season or the whole season all his time with Jazz, and secondly, Jazz have had awful guard pairings defensively. Clarkson, Sexton and George are all either too small, too bad or too unwilling in defensive end. Sexton shows heart at times but he's not just good or big enough. Collier might become a help, but I don't think the focus next season is go develop a defensive identity any sorts. Jazz wants another top five pick.

The traffic in and out with the roster has also been wild. So many starting lineup changes, so many new guys. 23-24 Kessler also had some nagging issues physically that halted his development so I wouldn't count any of that on Hardy as someone seems to be doing. Jazz team needs a lot of pieces and green light to actually try to win to get us the full picture of Hardy. It didn't look bad at all the last time he had it. Jazz run few months of very exciting basketball before the 23-24 trade deadline, when the rug was pulled under the team.
 
infection said:
Unsure how good of a coach he is. I think those really supporting him may interpret that as being a hater or not acknowledging reality. I genuinely don't know. Quin is a good example that he was seen as an absolute savant until we got exposed to his patterns in deeper into the competition. It's hard to prognosticate success at the highest levels with what we see in regular competition. I'm hoping he is the real thing because us winning a title would in no small part be tied to that.
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I think its fair to be unsure on Will a little. I personally think he's good/great for this group where they are. Seems to be a little inconsistent with when he holds players accountable but we don't know everything and sometimes its just hard. Overall the guys are engaged and trying hard and many are improving. When we weren't openly trying to lose we were 29-26 with a roster that really shouldn't have been that good. I think he speaks intelligently and we haven't seen vets ask out. We've seen the opposite in that they want to stay and see it through.

He seems really well respected. I think I put it all together and can say I feel comfortable he's like a top 10-15 coach and pretty ideal for where we are.

Overall I think this is good that there seems to be alignment between Owner/GM/Coach and I do think its the right path they are trying to chart. Just need some damn luck now to juice things.
 
I am not sure about this extension. On a fundamental level, rewarding a coach for coaching the worst team in the league seems a bit off. The defense wasn't just bad but historically bad. I have real concerns on that end. He definitely gives a good press conference. Sounds intelligent and nuanced but he might just be a guy who can talk well but not coach well. He speaks well in general but there is this atmosphere that everything going on is ok when it shouldn't be ok. Almost no accountability for the young guys being horrific defenders. Not just regularly bad but worst in the entire league bad. Keyonte might have been benched but he still got 30 minutes a game to do what he does. Brice wasn't much better defensively.

To be fair to them, they weren't drafted for their defensive prowess, but there is a minimum amount of defense that is needed. If they aren't hacking it on that end, Hardy needs to play someone else that will perform defensively. The Jazz shouldn't sink the whole team to develop young guys, even if its in their best interest to lose and develop. There has to be some level of merit and accountability or none of this is going to work in the future. It's about laying the proper foundation and mindset for the future.

But Hardy's previous 2 years weren't as bad as this year. The approach that he has gone for is to give the young guys a bunch of slack and playtime in the hopes that it leads to outsized growth. That approach also aligns with the Front Office wanting to lose for lottery balls. Which is why he got the extension. We will see how it all plays out. It's probably too much to hope for good basketball next year but I hope all this development leads to something in the future. Young draftees are not the only way to build a team.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Suns are pulling together a list of coaching candidates— Borrego and Joerger among them.
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Borrego got a raw deal in Charlotte. Needs a second chance. Joerger likely not a personality fit based on how it went with Bud.
 
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