Jackpotting Around Podcast - Episode 36: NBA Mock Draft

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think CMB is very underrated in comparison to Queen. @Handlogten's Heros makes a great point. I really can't see how the difference in their offense is larger than the difference in their defense.

I think WAS should take a really hard look at him at #6. He and Sarr would be a great fit together.

If neither guy gets a jumper, which based on what I've seen so far is a high possibility, I think CMB will be the better player. I think third big is like the median outcome for both.

CMB's shot is weird. His lower body seems all over the place. Sometimes I wonder how much coaching the kids have had when I see some of the stuff.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Shouldn’t we be taking a long look at him at 5? He could instantly help transform our defense.

He’s another huge fit puzzle. Like, going to the Spurs would be unbelievable (their logjam of guards that aren’t good shooters notwithstanding) and people would wonder how he fell that far. If he goes to a team with poor spacing then he might struggle to get a second contract IMO.

 

[KqWIN]

Shouldn’t we be taking a long look at him at 5? He could instantly help transform our defense.

Kessler is that level of player where I think you have to worry about fit. CMB will probably need to shoot it no matter what, but playing with Kessler makes that especially important. Actually, what am I talking about. Kessler is a stretch 5!

The defense would be great. CMB is built like a house, has great defensive hands, long arms, very smart, and isn't afraid to get physical. I take CMB much more seriously than Maluach. I might join the twitter nerds in saying that he's a top 5 prospect, but from a Jazz perspective I'd lean towards the perimeter guys because we have Kessler already.

 

[stitches]

Shouldn’t we be taking a long look at him at 5? He could instantly help transform our defense.

Is he really THAT good defensively? Singlehandedly transform the worst defense in the league? As a perimeter defender? I kind of feel like it's almost impossible for a non-rim protector to singlehandedly transform horrible defense into a good one(not even talking about great or elite one). But even still... Maybe we should start drafting guys who actually defend and make winning plays, even if(especially if!!) a single one can't do it by himself?

BTW, this was my contention last year too... Unless we think there is a player who can be elite offensive initiator, we might be better served picking "winning" players.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Is he really THAT good defensively? Singlehandedly transform the worst defense in the league? As a perimeter defender? I kind of feel like it's almost impossible for a non-rim protector to singlehandedly transform horrible defense into a good one(not even talking about great or elite one). But even still... Maybe we should start drafting guys who actually defend and make winning plays, even if(especially if!!) a single one can't do it by himself?

BTW, this was my contention last year too... Unless we think there is a player who can be elite offensive initiator, we might be better served picking "winning" players.

I think adding him and Hendricks along with Kessler you’d have the makings of a potentially very good defense.

The big problem with that team is offense.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Is he really THAT good defensively? Singlehandedly transform the worst defense in the league? As a perimeter defender? I kind of feel like it's almost impossible for a non-rim protector to singlehandedly transform horrible defense into a good one(not even talking about great or elite one). But even still... Maybe we should start drafting guys who actually defend and make winning plays, even if(especially if!!) a single one can't do it by himself?

BTW, this was my contention last year too... Unless we think there is a player who can be elite offensive initiator, we might be better served picking "winning" players.

The idea is that he’s a wholistic defender, not strictly perimeter (individual), in the mold of Draymond (4-5 position switchable, impactful on and off the ball).

 

[KqWIN]

If neither guy gets a jumper, which based on what I've seen so far is a high possibility, I think CMB will be the better player. I think third big is like the median outcome for both.

CMB's shot is weird. His lower body seems all over the place. Sometimes I wonder how much coaching the kids have had when I see some of the stuff.

CMB's shot is weird. But I'm not a shot doctor, and I have still yet to find a convincing argument one way or another if bad shooting form means room for improvement or bad form just means bad. A lot of fugly shot forms that go in and good looking shots that don't.

I would side with Queen's shooting because his FT% is higher, but like you said, neither is a high possibility. I personally think they're pretty even on offense. We talk about Tre like he just walked out of 'Nam, but CMB was in the SEC with an actually horrendous team. I will admit that Queen looks more skilled in the film, but their production certainly isn't different.

The defense is just not close at all, and defense is most important for bigs. We're talking about one of the worst versus one of the best. I don't think CMB is Draymond or Rudy Gobert level where he single handedly transforms the defense, but Queen might be the other end of that where it's extremely difficult to be good with him.

 

[NUMBERICA]

CMB's shot is weird. But I'm not a shot doctor, and I have still yet to find a convincing argument one way or another if bad shooting form means room for improvement or bad form just means bad. A lot of fugly shot forms that go in and good looking shots that don't.

I would side with Queen's shooting because his FT% is higher, but like you said, neither is a high possibility. I personally think they're pretty even on offense. We talk about Tre like he just walked out of 'Nam, but CMB was in the SEC with an actually horrendous team. I will admit that Queen looks more skilled in the film, but their production certainly isn't different.

The defense is just not close at all, and defense is most important for bigs. We're talking about one of the worst versus one of the best. I don't think CMB is Draymond or Rudy Gobert level where he single handedly transforms the defense, but Queen might be the other end of that where it's extremely difficult to be good with him.

I have trouble putting CMB top ten, but I still put him comfortably ahead of Queen.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I can’t seriously consider drafting CMB unless I have a credible plan for acquiring a legit stretch 5.

 

[stitches]

I think adding him and Hendricks along with Kessler you’d have the makings of a potentially very good defense.

The big problem with that team is offense.

That's where we probably need to make a serious attempt at getting to no. 2. I noticed you didn't include Lauri... I would personally be in favor of including him in a deal for 2. I also think Kessler and CMB is almost as doomed of a pairing as Gobert and Favors was.

So... Where does that leave us? If we plan on playing Kessler we probably need to play 4 players around him who can shoot or at least be treated like they can shoot.

 

[stitches]

Kessler is that level of player where I think you have to worry about fit. CMB will probably need to shoot it no matter what, but playing with Kessler makes that especially important. Actually, what am I talking about. Kessler is a stretch 5!

The defense would be great. CMB is built like a house, has great defensive hands, long arms, very smart, and isn't afraid to get physical. I take CMB much more seriously than Maluach. I might join the twitter nerds in saying that he's a top 5 prospect, but from a Jazz perspective I'd lean towards the perimeter guys because we have Kessler already.

Yep, the more I return to Kessler the more I feel like ... I can probably live with trading him this summer. He's good... But he's not good enough for you to make all sorts of accommodations to him in building your team.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Trading Kessler would be incredibly stupid

You can draft a backup 5 and keep Kessler. You don't just trade one of the leagues best rebounders/shot blockers

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

CMB's shot is weird. But I'm not a shot doctor, and I have still yet to find a convincing argument one way or another if bad shooting form means room for improvement or bad form just means bad. A lot of fugly shot forms that go in and good looking shots that don't.

I would side with Queen's shooting because his FT% is higher, but like you said, neither is a high possibility. I personally think they're pretty even on offense. We talk about Tre like he just walked out of 'Nam, but CMB was in the SEC with an actually horrendous team. I will admit that Queen looks more skilled in the film, but their production certainly isn't different.

The defense is just not close at all, and defense is most important for bigs. We're talking about one of the worst versus one of the best. I don't think CMB is Draymond or Rudy Gobert level where he single handedly transforms the defense, but Queen might be the other end of that where it's extremely difficult to be good with him.

I think form is somewhat important... I think feet and lower body are critical though. If that is inconsistent or bad you won't end up good imo.

My issue with Queen's jumper is its out in front of him and he has a hitch as it moves out. He has obvious touch that I think can help but I think it will need to be reworked. KOC seemed to think its gotten worse lol. He just had some small subtle comments that seemed like digs at him and maybe he isn't a serious worker yet. Not uncommon as he has basically kicked *** everywhere he has gone. It didn't seem like Cam Whitmore issues... more like Big Al Jefferson stuff where he's fun jovial and you want him to be a little more serious.

I likely wouldn't be drafting Queen as my guess is there is a front office that like him more than I would.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I can’t seriously consider drafting CMB unless I have a credible plan for acquiring a legit stretch 5.

I think if you take him top 10 that would be why. After like 13/14 I'd take that bet that he figures it out or that I can find a stretch 5... if he is just a third big that sometimes masquerades as a small ball 5 that is a win in that range.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Trading Kessler would be incredibly stupid

You can draft a backup 5 and keep Kessler. You don't just trade one of the leagues best rebounders/shot blockers

Depends on what you get and what you think he gets in an extension, but yeah... I'd rather draft his replacement and move him later if you have the problem of too many good centers.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I can’t seriously consider drafting CMB unless I have a credible plan for acquiring a legit stretch 5.

Don't think you need a legit stretch 5 for CMB to work. And the Jazz have 3 players who are some combo of tall/long/shooters with Flip/Lauri/Hendricks.

And maybe he learns to shoot and you can play him with Walker. Or maybe you can just play him with Walker due to the many teams playing two big lineups in the playoffs.
.

 

[HadAnEffectHere]

Don't think you need a legit stretch 5 for CMB to work. And the Jazz have 3 players who are some combo of tall/long/shooters with Flip/Lauri/Hendricks.

And maybe he learns to shoot and you can play him with Walker. Or maybe you can just play him with Walker due to the many teams playing two big lineups in the playoffs.
.

Hey, can you list which of those playoff teams have two bigs that can't shoot at all.

It's like the Rockets... Who immediately flamed out.

And that's despite the skill levels of Sengun and Amen being 10 billion times higher than CMB and Kessler (Kessler can't even shoot free throws...)

Chet and KAT have nothing in common with CMB at all. CMB has no future in the NBA outside of a bench big unless he learns how to shoot.

The fit with Kessler is probably irrelevant though as Kessler will probably be traded by the time the Jazz make the postseason again in 5-6 years.

Having a big man who can shoot well enough to play PF so you can break out two bigs is super usefull. A PF who can't shoot and isn't big enough to play center is not at all useful.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Hey, can you list which of those playoff teams have two bigs that can't shoot at all.

It's like the Rockets... Who immediately flamed out.

And that's despite the skill levels of Sengun and Amen being 10 billion times higher than CMB and Kessler (Kessler can't even shoot free throws...)

Chet and KAT have nothing in common with CMB at all. CMB has no future in the NBA outside of a bench big unless he learns how to shoot.

The fit with Kessler is probably irrelevant though as Kessler will probably be traded by the time the Jazz make the postseason again in 5-6 years.

Having a big man who can shoot well enough to play PF so you can break out two bigs is super usefull. A PF who can't shoot and isn't big enough to play center is not at all useful.

I'm sorry man. If your draft process relies on projecting every prospect to be exactly what they currently are I can't really convince you of anything.

CMB is skilled outside of shooting and his shooting indicators did improve despite having a bigger load this season.

 

[stitches]

I'm sorry man. If your draft process relies on projecting every prospect to be exactly what they currently are I can't really convince you of anything.

CMB is skilled outside of shooting and his shooting indicators did improve despite having a bigger load this season.

I guess it boils down to... Do you think he can be somewhere on the Draymond spectrum in the NBA? Seems like those are his ideal roles both on offense and on defense, right? Realistically, I mean.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I guess it boils down to... Do you think he can be somewhere on the Draymond spectrum in the NBA? Seems like those are his ideal roles both on offense and on defense, right? Realistically, I mean.

I mean, Paul Millsap also existed.