Collin Sexton traded to Charlotte Hornets for Jusuf Nurkic

[Basketball Novice]

interesting . i've seen enough people on the internet tell me he sucks that i just believed it. didn't look into anything. maybe because i wanted it to be true.

Pretty sure the Suns gave up a first to get rid of him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

interesting . i've seen enough people on the internet tell me he sucks that i just believed it. didn't look into anything. maybe because i wanted it to be true.

I think he just had issues in Phoenix. Everywhere else he has been as of late he's been solid.

 

[KqWIN]

Nah, should be playing Nurkic. He's a solid defensive backup center and he's a good passer and great screener. The Jazz can use him to help develop their young pieces. Flip wasnt being done any favors trying to be a fake 5.

Maybe he gets phased out as the season goes on, but Im guessing he's treated like Eubanks where he plays the early backup minutes then traded (or maybe waived) at a later date.

Meh, I don't think there's really a ton a value in having an on court vet. Playing Eubanks, for example, had no value. Playing with Nurkic might make the team temporarily look better, don't think it adds much to the development of young players if at all. And if he's playing minutes he's taking away minutes that can go to another prospect or WIP player. I'd rather get another center in there who can play minutes and that we can develop. Vets like Collins, Sexton, Clarkson, Nurkic....we don't need them. Get rid of all of them and if you must have a Patty Mills type vet in the locker room that's fine.

 

[KqWIN]

interesting . i've seen enough people on the internet tell me he sucks that i just believed it. didn't look into anything. maybe because i wanted it to be true.

He's a brutal watch because he's bad in some flagrant, and visually unappealing ways. But his value comes in less visible ways. Defensively, he still has value. He rebounds, he's a big body that stays at the rim and contests, and even though his scope is limited he doesn't mess up. He increased his teams defensive rebounding percentage more than any other player last season. I don't think he's as good as the numbers say, but he's still a decent rotation level player. The Suns did not get better by blaming all their problems on him and trading him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It will be a bummer if Charlotte lucks out and finds a situation where a team gives them a second rounder or two for Sexton at the deadline.

 

[The Midnight]

It will be a bummer if Charlotte lucks out and finds a situation where a team gives them a second rounder or two for Sexton at the deadline.

Not really.

I personally cannot stand watching 1 more minute of Sexton on our team.

I’d rather give all the minutes to Clayton or Collier, or even Keyonte.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Nurk leads the league in the amount of time spent checking to see if his nose is bloody... it is not.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Nurk leads the league in the amount of time spent checking to see if his nose is bloody... it is not.

you saying he has a coke problem?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

you saying he has a coke problem?

I'm saying exactly what I said. He gets hit in the face alot and is constantly checking his nose to see if he is bleeding. He took on the spirit of Brad Miller.

 

[slc]

Trading Sexton for Nurkic is better than trading Sexton for a vet with a massive long term contract
Jazz had to get back a similar salary to keep the books balanced
Nurkic also is not a multi year contract

 

[Elizah Huge]

Trading Sexton for Nurkic is better than trading Sexton for a vet with a massive long term contract
Jazz had to get back a similar salary to keep the books balanced
Nurkic also is not a multi year contract

Why not just buyout Sexton?

 

[The Midnight]

Why not just buyout Sexton?

Didn't someone mention earlier that he might not want one?

 

[stitches]

Why not just buyout Sexton?

I think I've come to the conclusion that they just really like Nurkic. No other explanation sounds reasonable to me. In essence, with this trade instead of Sexton buy out they told us that they value having Nurkic at his salary more than having a second round pick.

 

[The Midnight]

I think I've come to the conclusion that they just really like Nurkic. No other explanation sounds reasonable to me. In essence, with this trade instead of Sexton buy out they told us that they value having Nurkic at his salary more than having a second round pick.

And in the end a 2nd rounder is probably worth it for Nurkic.

 

[HeatCheck]

Fairly sure Klutch is the mastermind here especially when you consider both Nurk and Sexton are Klutch clients. They likely believe Charlotte is a better spot for Sexton heading into a contract year. Just my guess though.

Hopefully now they find a spot for Clarkson even if it just means a buyout/cap savings for the Jazz.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Why not just buyout Sexton?

my question is why not just buy out Clarkson? much harder to trade than even Sexton.

 

[Schrödinger's Gerbil]

Yes, tanking is extremely overrated. But what exactly would be your plan to move forward? It really doesn't say much to say that tanking is unlikely to work unless you offer a solution that is better. "I'm tired of this" isn't exactly an argument that other paths are more effective.

I'm not a GM. I don't get paid to make those decisions, nor do I posses a special knowledge or skill set that makes me ideally suited to make them. I'm only observing that the tanking discourse here (and elsewhere in the NBA mediascape) has reached absurd levels of irrational confidence in tanking as a strategy for developing championship caliber NBA teams capable of sustained deep playoff runs.

The tanking discourse across the league is one huge exercise in uncritical, unreflective group think. When, as I heard in a recent NBA podcast, NBA "experts" declare that Sacramento needs to tear it down, this after 1 playoff appearance (first round) exit in the last 19 years, or as recently suggested here that Charlotte should be tanking, even thought it's made three playoff appearances in the last 21 years (all first round exits), this is a clear indication that the tanking discourse has reached peak absurdity.

I would be less likely to push back so relentlessly if I observed a more moderated discourse surrounding tanking that took due account of its costs, risks, and uncertain returns on investment. Instead, I tend to see here and across the media landscape an unrelenting tanking drumbeat that evinces little evidence that tanking advocates consider such things coupled with an irrational and unfounded confidence that what the Jazz are trying to do actually works, based on incredibly scant evidence. (I don't consider OKC a model, unless the Jazz can replicate trading for a future MVP.)

Also, for those tempted, please spare me the "if you don't have a solution, you don't have a right to complain" canard. This unreasonable standard would prohibit us from expressing an opinion on virtually anything outside our narrow realm of expertise. It's primary purpose is to foreclose discourse and opinions that the user doesn't like.

As to what the Jazz should do, my hope the Jazz FO has an actual plan on to pivot from trying to lose to trying to win that includes clear metrics and timelines and that the timeline is sooner rather than later. I assume this entails combining draft success (albeit highly uncertain) with strategic trades, roster development, and the retention of competent talent. If the plan is to denude the roster of competent talent while continuing to speculate in the draft lottery (which seems to be the preferred strategy here), I worry that we're still 3-5 years out from competition, at which point the likelihood of generating a positive return on the losing investment diminishes significantly.

 

[HermanG]

Fairly sure Klutch is the mastermind here especially when you consider both Nurk and Sexton are Klutch clients. They likely believe Charlotte is a better spot for Sexton heading into a contract year. Just my guess though.

Hopefully now they find a spot for Clarkson even if it just means a buyout/cap savings for the Jazz.

This is a solid theory as well.

 

[KqWIN]

I'm not a GM. I don't get paid to make those decisions, nor do I posses a special knowledge or skill set that makes me ideally suited to make them. I'm only observing that the tanking discourse here (and elsewhere in the NBA mediascape) has reached absurd levels of irrational confidence in tanking as a strategy for developing championship caliber NBA teams capable of sustained deep playoff runs.

The tanking discourse across the league is one huge exercise in uncritical, unreflective group think. When, as I heard in a recent NBA podcast, NBA "experts" declare that Sacramento needs to tear it down, this after 1 playoff appearance (first round) exit in the last 19 years, or as recently suggested here that Charlotte should be tanking, even thought it's made three playoff appearances in the last 21 years (all first round exits), this is a clear indication that the tanking discourse has reached peak absurdity.

I would be less likely to push back so relentlessly if I observed a more moderated discourse surrounding tanking that took due account of its costs, risks, and uncertain returns on investment. Instead, I tend to see here and across the media landscape an unrelenting tanking drumbeat that evinces little evidence that tanking advocates consider such things coupled with an irrational and unfounded confidence that what the Jazz are trying to do actually works, based on incredibly scant evidence. (I don't consider OKC a model, unless the Jazz can replicate trading for a future MVP.)

Also, for those tempted, please spare me the "if you don't have a solution, you don't have a right to complain" canard. This unreasonable standard would prohibit us from expressing an opinion on virtually anything outside our narrow realm of expertise. It's primary purpose is to foreclose discourse and opinions that the user doesn't like.

As to what the Jazz should do, my hope the Jazz FO has an actual plan on to pivot from trying to lose to trying to win that includes clear metrics and timelines and that the timeline is sooner rather than later. I assume this entails combining draft success (albeit highly uncertain) with strategic trades, roster development, and the retention of competent talent. If the plan is to denude the roster of competent talent while continuing to speculate in the draft lottery (which seems to be the preferred strategy here), I worry that we're still 3-5 years out from competition, at which point the likelihood of generating a positive return on the losing investment diminishes significantly.

I actually 100% agree with your initial post I replied to, and I'd add onto that by saying that many fans enjoy the low stress environment of tanking. A lot of fans were incredibly unhappy during the end years of Don+Rudy and that's because there were real expectations to win. There was a lot on the line and that created a lot of stress. The most unhappy teams are the ones who have expectations and fail to meet them. It's why so many coaches of the year get fired. They set a high expectation and it's difficult to uphold it. When you're tanking, you either win or you win. The most stress you'll get is when you win a game you wanted to lose. I think this is comfortable situation for many whether they will admit it or not.

But I made my post because I also 100% agree with tanking in this moment. Tanking is not nearly as effective as people make it out to me, but the other options besides tanking are horrible right now. I've landed on the conclusion that tanking is horrible and not a great strategy but it is still better than the other options at this moment. So I don't think it's fair to dismiss everyone that wants to tank as someone who thinks tanking is a great strategy or someone who just loves gambling. It's not taking the high road to simply say that tanking is bad. You claim to be seeking this higher level of discourse without wanting to engage in it.

I don't think it's an unreasonable standard to consider other alternatives because many have and we talk about all day everyday around here. If you're unwilling to offer a solution, that's fine, but at that point it's just a complaint and not a real discussion about whether tanking is a positive direction or not.

 

[HeatCheck]

This is a solid theory as well.

I think so. Klutch reps several players on Charlotte including Bridges. Not sure about Lamelo but they definitely rep Lonzo. Rich was busy this weekend with the LeBron option, the Lonzo deal, and Sexton/Nurk trades.