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Utah Jazz Select Walter Clayton Jr, Pick 18 (Trade)

SoberasHotRod said:
I think people should picture WCJ in a Sexton like role vs a starting point guard role. I posted this in the other thread, but even though they have very different games, the results are very similar. WCJ is not a natural playmaker, and probably not someone that you would want playing point guard, especially when surrounded by other non play makers.
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Agreed. I think he's a decent ball mover....but he's not really a playmaking initiator. When he's initiating off the dribble he's looking to score first. I don't really care for hard position labels—I think his role will similar to Pritchard.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Having watched a considerable amount of highlights of this guy, and most of his NCAA tournament run this year, I don't see why he doesn't project as a point guard in the NBA. I keep seeing "combo guard" in a lot of scouting reports. I think most of that comes from the scouting reports earlier in his college career. He just plays like a modern day NBA point guard to me. There are plenty of 6'2" guys coming out of college that it's fair to question if they can be a primary ball handler in the NBA (Keyonte), but I just don't see that with WCJ.

The two most common weaknesses in his scouting reports are his size and age.

His size is only an issue if he can't play PG. I'm very convinced he can and he has solid size for a PG. Look at the combine measurements of him and Deron Williams. They might as well be identical. If he can play PG, size is a non-issue.

His age, at 22, is certainly something to consider. Is he a late bloomer? He was highly recruited as a football player and you have to wonder if that may of delayed his development timeline. How much untapped development does he have in his game? Is it considerably less than than the current young PGs we have on our roster? If he was 20 years old I think he would of easily been a top 10 pick, likely going shoulder to shoulder with Jeremiah Fears.

At the end of the day, shooting plays in the NBA. Especially with his quick release. Unlike several of our recent draft picks, we don't have to teach this guy to shoot, and we don't have to teach him to play hard. Our coaching staff has to be THRILLED with that.

I tend to be pessimistic with draft picks outside of the lottery, but I'm calling this one a steal. He will be our starting PG before you know it, and he's going to have a lengthy career as a quality PG in the NBA.
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The reason why it's difficult to project him as a starting point guard is because he isn't a natural play maker. He made huge strides in play making this year at Florida and still only had a 23% ast%. Also his 1.7ast/to ratio isn't bad, but it's not great for a senior point guard. Also, just watching him play and it felt pretty clear to me that he was not looking to set teammates up, especially in the half court, at least in my opinion.

If you look at NBA point guards the majority of them have ast% in the 30%+ range. The exceptions are for guys who play with playmaking wings and bigs, which isn't the case in Utah. I think it's ok to hope for him to develop that, but I don't think it's fair to expect it when he really hasn't show that is his game up to this point.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
The reason why it's difficult to project him as a starting point guard is because he isn't a natural play maker. He made huge strides in play making this year at Florida and still only had a 23% ast%. Also his 1.7ast/to ratio isn't bad, but it's not great for a senior point guard. Also, just watching him play and it felt pretty clear to me that he was not looking to set teammates up, especially in the half court, at least in my opinion.

If you look at NBA point guards the majority of them have ast% in the 30%+ range. The exceptions are for guys who play with playmaking wings and bigs, which isn't the case in Utah. I think it's ok to hope for him to develop that, but I don't think it's fair to expect it when he really hasn't show that is his game up to this point.
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Definitely fair. I haven't done a lot of evaluation on ast%.

Which of the following has the greatest likelihood of happening:

Keyonte learns how to play PG.

WCJ learns how to play PG.

Collier learns how to shoot.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Definitely fair. I haven't done a lot of evaluation on ast%.

Which of the following has the greatest likelihood of happening:

Keyonte learns how to play PG.

WCJ learns how to play PG.

Collier learns how to shoot.
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Keyonte, in my opinion. Keyonte had an ast% of 27.2% and an ast/to ratio of 2.06. I think that Keyonte is a good passer/has good vision, but he just needs to learn how to get the offense going earlier/look to pass a little more. He's also still a little younger than WCJ, so potentially has more potential to grow in that area. I think the Jazz have given up on him as a point guard though, so it's still unlikely to happen.

Collier is the one I would most like to see. He would be a really great player if he learned to shoot, but he is such a bad jump shooter it feels very unlikely.

Just for fun I looked this up on NBA.com and here is the list of guards with a 20-25% ast% and a less than 2.0 ast/to ratio:

- Sexton, Castle, Trendon Watford, Ant Edwards, Jaylen Brown, Anthony Black

- Other guys in that ast% and ast/to range include Jordan Poole, Coby White, Bane, Scoot, Kevin Porter Jr.,

www.nba.com

Players Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring advanced information for each player in the league based on selected filters.
www.nba.com www.nba.com
 
KqWIN said:
I think the bigger question right now is his defense. We're seeing small guards have next to zero value if they can't defend.
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and in the rare case they can defend, it's usually limited other small or smallish guards. they are no help in terms of switching onto bigger players.

i'm a clayton fan and maybe his offense can be good enough to overcome his size - plus he's on the thick/strong side and that tends to help - but it's not easy for small guards in today's league.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
and in the rare case they can defend, it's usually limited other small or smallish guards. they are no help in terms of switching onto bigger players.

i'm a clayton fan and maybe his offense can be good enough to overcome his size - plus he's on the thick/strong side and that tends to help - but it's not easy for small guards in today's league.
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People have been questioning the value of small guards for awhile now and based on this off season I think it's only the beginning. You have to be so good as a non-defensive guard to have good value in this league. Guys like Sexton and Monk are really good, but are also not worth a mid level in this new NBA. I still think your chance of hitting on an NBA player is high if you go small guard, but chances of getting a player that's worth than the mid level is low. You almost have to be an all star level player (Garland, Trae, etc.) to be a full fledged starter as a non defensive guard.

Next year, I'm certainly going to readjust the way I do my board. Hard to ignore how these guys are valued around the league. You don't really need to draft one of these guys if they can be available through trade at any time for close to free.
 
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