Game Thread Dec 12, 2025 06:00PM MT: Utah Jazz @ Memphis Grizzlies

[SoberasHotRod]

My favorite play of the game was the alley oop from key to ace for the backwards dunk in the 4th quarter.
Hopefully those two will be great for a long time for the jazz

That play was sick.

 

[Hedda Gambler]

The Jazz's defensive rating for the season with KLove on the court is 140.

One hundred and fourty.

The tank people should be happy Hardy was playing him. Y'all bitch about anything and everything

I can`t speak for anyone else, but yes, I know that I`ve been bitching in this thread and I don`t like it at all. I usually take the rational view, but it is just so hard to root for losses and then get mad when they pul out an unexpected win. I get frustrated and acting out. I`ll do better.

 

[fishonjazz]

By now we should just expect Lauri or Key or both to off, especially against non playoff teams.

Ya I was just gonna post that if the Jazz are healthy, rested, and playing against a non playoff team then there is a good chance of a win.
The thing that has some people lagging behind in how bad of shape the tank is in, is last season. Many people think that since we were last in the league last season then its not possible to have improved much due to the off season moves.
Take last season with a grain of salt. The shenanigans were off the charts. We literally got fined by the nba for the shenanigans. They never fine teams for tanking. If the jazz were trying to win last season like they are this season then we would have landed at the very back end of the lottery....... sort of like we are on pace for right now (currently in the 9th spot with our pick likely going to OKC)

Gonna need some more shenanigans if we want to ensure that we keep the pick. Easiest way to do this is to play Cody Williams and Taylor Hendricks more. If playing them doesn't work then we get the bonus of seeing that those 2 actually can be positive players for the jazz. Its a win win. If they aren't positive players then it helps to keep the pick. If they are positive players then the future looks brighter.

 

[fishonjazz]

Ya I was just gonna post that if the Jazz are healthy, rested, and playing against a non playoff team then there is a good chance of a win.
The thing that has some people lagging behind in how bad of shape the tank is in, is last season. Many people think that since we were last in the league last season then its not possible to have improved much due to the off season moves.
Take last season with a grain of salt. The shenanigans were off the charts. We literally got fined by the nba for the shenanigans. They never fine teams for tanking. If the jazz were trying to win last season like they are this season then we would have landed at the very back end of the lottery....... sort of like we are on pace for right now (currently in the 9th spot with our pick likely going to OKC)

Gonna need some more shenanigans if we want to ensure that we keep the pick. Easiest way to do this is to play Cody Williams and Taylor Hendricks more. If playing them doesn't work then we get the bonus of seeing that those 2 actually can be positive players for the jazz. Its a win win. If they aren't positive players then it helps to keep the pick. If they are positive players then the future looks brighter.

I would also be curious to know if there are maybe more bad teams this season vs last season.
Like how many teams are on pace for less than 28 wins this season vs how many teams actually finished with less than 28 wins last season.

 

[Step-Back Lauri]

By now we should just expect Lauri or Key or both to off, especially against non playoff teams.

After two weeks into season I felt it's gonna be like this and without trading 2-3 of veterans (not likely), the pick is a coin toss if Jazz will keep it. The schedule we have the next week's isn't the easiest but I'm afraid there will be one or two home wins against some better teams too, that happens at home. It doesn't look good for the pick so all my hope is now on Key continuing his ascend, then pray for miracle that Jazz can pull of a big fish from the market in next two seasons.

 

[HadAnEffectHere]

The Jazz keeping the pick or not is pretty irrelevant compared to just getting a top 4 pick. The 6-10 range in this draft is not looking good at all.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I would also be curious to know if there are maybe more bad teams this season vs last season.
Like how many teams are on pace for less than 28 wins this season vs how many teams actually finished with less than 28 wins last season.

There's more bad teams and there's more injured teams. The Jazz are only marginally better from a net rating perspective this year compared to last year. (-7.7 vs -9.3)

Last year the West only had two teams below a -3.1 net rating. This year there are 6 teams below -3.1 in the West.

I'm sure some of that is tied to how dominant OKC has been (not to mention Houston/Denver, the NBA hasnt been this top heavy in a while). They are just absolutely trouncing everyone and probably skewing a lot of net rating numbers very negatively for teams.

 

[bopahull]

Maybe it's time to start trying to make sure OKC's pick is as bad as possible seeing as it looks like it may be very difficult to hang onto it.

 

[Schrödinger's Gerbil]

The Jazz's defensive rating for the season with KLove on the court is 140.

One hundred and fourty.

The tank people should be happy Hardy was playing him. Y'all bitch about anything and everything

That’s only part of the story. The Jazz appear to have three primary objectives this season: (1) retain their 2026 draft pick, (2) develop the young core, and (3) determine which players are part of the long-term plan and what roles they should play. The latter two are intermediate steps toward the real goal: sustained championship competitiveness. Playing Love or other veterans in heavy minutes at the expense of younger players may help accomplish the first objective, but it does little to advance the second and third objectives and is therefore less likely to contribute to the long-term goal.

For me -- and I suspect for many other Jazz fans -- the primary reason we’re willing to tolerate intentional losing, at least for now, is if it meaningfully advances all three objectives. That’s a narrow and difficult line to walk, but it’s the line the front office’s roster decisions have imposed. As a result, the front office and Will Hardy damned-well need to be aligned and deliberate in walking it together.

I’m not arguing that Love, Anderson, or other veterans should be benched entirely. Denying them minutes altogether would be disrespectful; they’ve earned a role by virtue of their careers and professionalism. The challenge becomes even more complicated once Niang returns. Is he a potential longer-term piece, or someone the team should look to move as soon as it’s practical? Clarifying those answers requires minutes, but they need to be allocated consistently with the above objectives and goals; NOT because Hardy has come burr up his arse.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That’s only part of the story. The Jazz appear to have three primary objectives this season: (1) retain their 2026 draft pick, (2) develop the young core, and (3) determine which players are part of the long-term plan and what roles they should play. The latter two are intermediate steps toward the real goal: sustained championship competitiveness. Playing Love or other veterans in heavy minutes at the expense of younger players may help accomplish the first objective, but it does little to advance the second and third objectives and is therefore less likely to contribute to the long-term goal.

For me -- and I suspect for many other Jazz fans -- the primary reason we’re willing to tolerate intentional losing, at least for now, is if it meaningfully advances all three objectives. That’s a narrow and difficult line to walk, but it’s the line the front office’s roster decisions have imposed. As a result, the front office and Will Hardy damned-well need to be aligned and deliberate in walking it together.

I’m not arguing that Love, Anderson, or other veterans should be benched entirely. Denying them minutes altogether would be disrespectful; they’ve earned a role by virtue of their careers and professionalism. The challenge becomes even more complicated once Niang returns. Is he a potential longer-term piece, or someone the team should look to move as soon as it’s practical? Clarifying those answers requires minutes, but they need to be allocated consistently with the above objectives and goals; NOT because Hardy has come burr up his arse.

Playing with competent vets helps the core of the core develop.

We should be playing guys like Harkless over Sensabaugh/Collier while we at it tbh

 

[KqWIN]

Playing with competent vets helps the core of the core develop.

We should be playing guys like Harkless over Sensabaugh/Collier while we at it tbh

@Elizah Huge

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

@Elizah Huge

The issue I have with the logic is that many pushing the "we need to play the vets so we have a good development environment" are also the same as the "you really think Svi/Love/Anderson/Nurk help us win lolz?" group.

I think you really gotta pick one narrative of those two. If the vets help a development environment its because they are helping us play more functional basketball which is going to produce more winning.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

"Development" is just a codeword for tanking.

The Ainges want to tank (with two All Star level offensive players).

Hardy wants to win (within the constraints dictated by the FO).

The players, obviously, also want to win, and some of them are playing for their professional lives. They don't want to be replaced by new lottery picks.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

"Development" is just a codeword for tanking.

The Ainges want to tank (with two All Star level offensive players).

Hardy wants to win (within the constraints dictated by the FO).

The players, obviously, also want to win, and some of them are playing for their professional lives. They don't want to be replaced by new lottery picks.

Do the Ainges want to tank? Do they seen things eye to eye? And how bad do they want to tank?

I think Will would play along if they asked. But absent an ask his job is to win so... I don't blame him.

 

[Schrödinger's Gerbil]

Playing with competent vets helps the core of the core develop.

We should be playing guys like Harkless over Sensabaugh/Collier while we at it tbh

I don’t disagree. The issue, though, is that veterans are often playing instead of the core young players. Development isn’t just about minutes; it’s about having the latitude to make mistakes and the opportunity to play in meaningful situations, especially closing out games and navigating tight finishes. Consistently leaning on vet-heavy lineups in those moments undercuts that process.

Compounding this is Hardy’s apparent revolving door of players moving in and out of the doghouse, which isn’t ideal for confidence or continuity. Again, I’m not arguing that veterans shouldn’t play at all. But if the goals are to lose strategically, develop the youth, and gain clarity on who fits long-term and in what roles, then allocating significant minutes to veterans who aren't in the team's long-term plans carries a real opportunity cost.

I'd also like to see Harkless get more burn.

 

[fishonjazz]

Playing with competent vets helps the core of the core develop.

We should be playing guys like Harkless over Sensabaugh/Collier while we at it tbh

Last night seemed fine without svi, nurk, and love.

 

[rjfan]

I'm wondering If we should have Flip as the starting center more often. Not even as a tanking measure, just talent evaluation wise. Give him those opportunities.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm wondering If we should have Flip as the starting center more often. Not even as a tanking measure, just talent evaluation wise. Give him those opportunities.

Definitely. We should be trying lots of stuff with all the young guys for evaluation purposes.
Svi, love, and nurk should have been riding way more pine from day 1.

 

[rjfan]

Definitely. We should be trying lots of stuff with all the young guys for evaluation purposes.
Svi, love, and nurk should have been riding way more pine from day 1.

For sure we should with all the young guys.

It's just that Flip been jumping the most for me. Even more when he's got these starting nods.

 

[fishonjazz]

For sure we should with all the young guys.

It's just that Flip been jumping the most for me. Even more when he's got these starting nods.

Ya he has looked really good many times this season.
Maybe of our recent draft picks have been looking pretty good pretty often.
Nice to see.