Current roster and payroll?

[billyshelby]

Locke would be wrong, then.

Me and aint just had this debate. When you read Coon, you see that the NBA signing bonus is counterintuitive. It's really just a means of offering a player more money up front, thereby reducing the backend of a deal. Additionally, it gets folded into the life of the deal such that each year represents the accurate Cap Hit. I don't know that Locke's figures are accurate, but the 'pro-rated' bonus should already be reflected in his reported salary figures.

 

[billyshelby]

As to the Jazz and Payroll, my read on KOC when he said the Jazz are going into the tax with Jefferson was not literal. Yes, Jefferson literally puts us fractionally into the tax. But I think he meant it generally. Like, adding Jefferson means that, WITH the other guys we have to get, we're going to be several million dollars into the tax this season. That doesn't mean they'll go sky high into the tax, or that they won't try to get under in some way by the deadline, but that Jazz management understood they were highly likely to be tax payers at the end of the year as opposed to tap dancing on the line.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Me and aint just had this debate. When you read Coon, you see that the NBA signing bonus is counterintuitive. It's really just a means of offering a player more money up front, thereby reducing the backend of a deal. Additionally, it gets folded into the life of the deal such that each year represents the accurate Cap Hit. I don't know that Locke's figures are accurate, but the 'pro-rated' bonus should already be reflected in his reported salary figures.

Yeah. Probably linked to this:

https://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q65

Shamsports has Millsap at 7.6. Hoopshype at 6.2. Leads me to believe base salary is 6.2, cap hit is 7.6. I think Locke is using Hoopshype.

 

[NCJazz]

That's funny because I think there's about 1% chance either will be moved by the deadline.

Dont think you could completely count out Millsap getting moved either. Lets be honest he is still a 6'7" power forward. If they decide they like AL at the 4 and by a miracle Fess plays well or we think Tomic could be the guy there is always that chance he could be moved.

 

[billyshelby]

Yeah. Probably linked to this:

https://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q65

Shamsports has Millsap at 7.6. Hoopshype at 6.2. Leads me to believe base salary is 6.2, cap hit is 7.6. I think Locke is using Hoopshype.

This still needs a Kenwood clarification. But shamsports has to be more accurate relative to his Cap Hit. Sap's 4 year deal was 6.2/6.2/6.7/7.2. That only adds up to 26 for a 30mil deal. So presuming the roughly 4 mil bonus, his Cap figures would have to be proportionately higher.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

This still needs a Kenwood clarification. But shamsports has to be more accurate relative to his Cap Hit. Sap's 4 year deal was 6.2/6.2/6.7/7.2. That only adds up to 26 for a 30mil deal. So presuming the roughly 4 mil bonus, his Cap figures would have to be proportionately higher.

I thought the bonus was 9.2M and all up front?

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Christ we need to dump AK and Okur desperately.

This. If we somehow got rid of Okur and re-signed AK for 7M per, we'd cut about 20M off our books. If we lost them both, that's about 27M gone. That's huge. Use that space to sign (if he's healthy) Perkins.

Then again, we'd also have to worry about re-upping with Deron, Miles, Millsap, and Jefferson a couple years later too but we could cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

[billyshelby]

I thought the bonus was 9.2M and all up front?

It was. I think the actual number was 10, but that's beside the point. In Sap's case, the 4 mil bonus would have been paid upfront, but spread out in equal increments relative to the Cap. So a salary that appears as 6.7 on the balance sheet is closer to 8 as a Cap number, though 6.7 is what actually gets paid. Portland could set Sap's salary as high as they wanted because he was an RFA, and the bonus could be 20 percent of that.

In Wes' case, because of the MLE used to sign him, the total salary is limited to those constraints. Thus, the bonus reduces the first year salary. As a consequence, the 8 percent raises are lowered over the life of the deal. The bonus is still prorated over those years like Sap's, but the Cap hit doesn't go up as much as a result of the first year salary being lowered. The added kicker that Portland throws into the works, as you mentioned, is full payment of the salary up front + the bonus which is a challenge to the Jazz's liquidity. If the Jazz aren't liquid for the money, they have to borrow it, and then pay whatever interest comes with that. The interest isn't likely that appreciable, but it's a little more salt on the wound.

 

[dantheman]

As mush as I like Memo, trading him later in the season would be phenomenal, especially if it means paying less or no luxury tax.

 

[Hitman]

I thought the bonus was 9.2M and all up front?

No, the bonus was $5M-$6M, but the contract terms were that he would receive the bonus plus $4.7M of his first year salary in advance within a week of the contract becoming official, so in order to match the Jazz had to find $10M in a hurry. The rest of hist first year salary - about $2M - would be paid normally. Note that these figures are from memory, I'll try to find the correct figures and post them. Getting exact, accurate figures on any contract are difficult, Millsap's more so because of the unusual terms of the contract and the advance payment. I suspect a lot of sites use the up-front payment as the value of his signing bonus when a chunk of it is actually salary.

 

[billyshelby]

No, the bonus was $5M-$6M, but the contract terms were that he would receive the bonus plus $4.7M of his first year salary in advance within a week of the contract becoming official, so in order to match the Jazz had to find $10M in a hurry. The rest of hist first year salary - about $2M - would be paid normally. Note that these figures are from memory, I'll try to find the correct figures and post them. Getting exact, accurate figures on any contract are difficult, Millsap's more so because of the unusual terms of the contract and the advance payment. I suspect a lot of sites use the up-front payment as the value of his signing bonus when a chunk of it is actually salary.

This is right. But I thought they had to pay the entire first year salary up front with the bonus. Either way, it's the same basic model as Portland is now using with Wes. It's a pretty effective strategy in real world terms. They're making the Jazz fork over 9 million dollars NOW in a year when A) they had higher salary overhead; B) will be making a lump sum tax payment at some point if they already haven't made it; and C) are dealing with a bottom line financial disparity they haven't really dealt with--in a normal year, they're under the tax, get 4 million or so for that, and thus their salary overhead is like 63 million. This year, they pay the tax, and their salary overhead with the tax jumps to the neighborhood of 80. That's a pretty substantial loss of revenue to then turn around and write a 10 million dollar check.

 

[Hitman]

On checking, I found this @ https://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4320029:

"The Portland Trail Blazers [offered] Utah Jazz restricted free agent Paul Millsap a four-year contract worth $32 million....

The Blazers front-loaded the contract to make it difficult for Utah to match. They gave Millsap a $5.6 million signing bonus and agreed to pay him $4.7 million of his first-year, $6.3 million salary the day the contract becomes effective.

So a week from now, Millsap would receive $10.3 million. Add to that the $1.6 million that will be spread throughout next season and Millsap, who was paid just $797,581 last season, will be paid $11.9 million this year. The remaining $20.1 million will be spread over the final three years of the deal."

I've seen Millsap's salary for the final three years quoted as $6.2M (which is this season), $6.7M and $7.2M, amounts which match the $20.1M figure stated in the ESPN article. But you have to add the pro-rated signing bonus to this year's salary for his cap hit, and the amount of this bonus that is added is dependent on whether all years are guaranteed and if there are any option years. If all years are guaranteed and no option years, this means his cap hit is $7.6M. If there are any years not fully guaranteed and/or options, then this hit will be higher (which would explain the higher figure I've quoted for his cap hit). Need to do some more research....