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LDS General Conference 2012

TroutBum

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I can't believe there hasn't been a thread on this yet, but not really. I am only making it because I wanted to know your take on Nelson's talk on Sunday morning. Specifically, I'd like Colton and franklin's, since they're in the business of science.

I wonder how some of the Mormon scientists, namely Henry B. Eyring, felt about it: "Anyone who has studied the inner workings of the human body has seen God moving in His majesty and power... Some think such marvelous things happened by chance or resulted from a big bang somewhere. Ask yourself - could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?"

Personally, I felt sorry for Nelson, and for the clowns that were laughing with him. My wife and I had a quick but heated argument about it. (I lost)
 
I was going to comment, but remembered my name was not Colton or franklin.
 
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I apologize in advance for this response.

I'm not huge on this analogy because it is akin to saying that "science" believes all life found its present form as the immediate result of one spectacular occurrence. I understand what he was getting at, but I think there are better ways of doing it.

I'm also a little disappointed every time a GA says something to widen the gap between religion and science. I would love, at the end of it all, if God got up on front of everybody and said, "Yeah, the Big Bang. Pretty much correct. That's how I did it."
 
I can't believe there hasn't been a thread on this yet, but not really. I am only making it because I wanted to know your take on Nelson's talk on Sunday morning. Specifically, I'd like Colton and franklin's, since they're in the business of science.

I wonder how some of the Mormon scientists, namely Henry B. Eyring, felt about it: "Anyone who has studied the inner workings of the human body has seen God moving in His majesty and power... Some think such marvelous things happened by chance or resulted from a big bang somewhere. Ask yourself - could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?"

Personally, I felt sorry for Nelson, and for the clowns that were laughing with him. My wife and I had a quick but heated argument about it. (I lost)

Henry B. Eyring is not a scientist. His father, Henry E. Eyring, was a pretty good scientist who wrote books about faith and science, and was at one time in the Sunday School Presidency, and helped in a number of ways to make science, including belief in evolution, compatible with being a Mormon in good standing.

HE Eyring would say positive things about discoveries compatible with a scientific view of evolutionary processes, and openly stated that the Earth was billions of years old, just like Joseph Smith once said, and put it all together as compatible with the fact that in Hebrew, the decimal point, or number of thousands, was not concretely specified, and left it open to translators later on to fit things to their own ignorance. He believed "Large Periods of Time" would have been a better translation than "Thousand Years" or "Day with the Lord".

While more of an education specialist as opposed to scientist, Henry B. Eyring probably read his father's books, but is simply polite enough to let other folks express their opinions without really heavy-handed censorship.

Russel Nelson is a scientist, too, and probably has some scientific basis for his statements, as well as religious ones. I agree with his statement perfectly, even though I accept evolution pretty much as an as-yet-imperfectly-understood phenomena. We have no data that could possibly relate to whether or not it is a natural process that is influenced by divine guidance, like say a disparate bunch of elites representing various independent states who could argue all summer and then finally settle on an agreement like our Constitution, which gave ordinary people vast and expansive rights to direct their limited government.

There are several points of view that can be taken and quite well-defended for some kind of "intelligent design", some of which don't necessarily involve a Judeo-Christian God. For example, there is prominent Russian scientist who worked through the Stalinist era without getting sent to Siberia, a professor Vernadsky, who developed a scientific theory about the "Noosphere", the whole underlying physical set of conditions necessary for life, and who believed nature has a pattern of creating the things necessary for life, a sort of "life-force" inherent in the universe.

Zen Buddhists and Hindus have their own understandings of the ultimate facts of life which essentially agree that we exist as some part of a sentient Nature. The very most fundamental kernel of "intelligent design".

However, American courts have decided they know more about it than anyone, and must prevent it from being discussed in public schools, in favor of Nietzsche's assertions that men who have power to play God should have the right to do so.
 
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I can't believe there hasn't been a thread on this yet, but not really. I am only making it because I wanted to know your take on Nelson's talk on Sunday morning. Specifically, I'd like Colton and franklin's, since they're in the business of science.

I wonder how some of the Mormon scientists, namely Henry B. Eyring, felt about it: "Anyone who has studied the inner workings of the human body has seen God moving in His majesty and power... Some think such marvelous things happened by chance or resulted from a big bang somewhere. Ask yourself - could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?"

Personally, I felt sorry for Nelson, and for the clowns that were laughing with him. My wife and I had a quick but heated argument about it. (I lost)

I had a problem with the words he chose, not the point he was making. The point he was making is that the intricate details of of the world around us are evidence of the hand of the Creator. I absolutely believe that. The words he chose unfortunately left the impression that LDS should not believe in the big bang.

I have a friend who is an astronomer who summed it up nicely. She wrote in a Facebook post:

"The big bang is an expansion not an explosion, if you are going to make fun of it, at least get the details right...now I have 116 students with a picture of an exploding printing press in their minds that I now have to pull out and replace with an expanding one. :) An explosion has a center, an expansion does not. The expansion of the universe was gloriously organized with the same beauty and detail that he gave to his description of the human body. I don't make fun of his study of God's creation and likewise he shouldn't make fun of my study of God's creation. He would not if he took the time to study out and understand the way he has studied the human body."
 
tl;dnw, sorry.

I suppose they're possible, but the number of spontaneous activities necessary to make a single one of the simpler cycles possible inside an organism astounds me. In a cycle, complex molecules rely on the existence of the others. According to evolution, these randomly formed, complex molecules just happened to form against the laws of thermodynamics, in very close vicinity, aggregated spontaneously inside the same spherule, and decided to invent the Calvin cycle? That sounds like how a god would miraculously form but not us.

I also wonder why the universe expands at that perfect rate out of nearly infinite possibilities (a term One Brow would scold me for using :)).
I also wonder why convergent evolution has not produced other highly intelligent beings as evolution would predict. Where are the mermaids and men?
I also think God had the deluge to destroy Neanderthals that the Adamaic blood line was mixing with. That's not a joke, I really am that wacky.
 
Henry B. Eyring is not a scientist. His father, Henry E. Eyring, was a pretty good scientist...

Henry E. Eyring was more than just a "pretty good" scientist. He was a world class chemist who (as I understand it) won all the scientific awards in his field short of the Nobel Prize.

And for what it's worth, Pres. Henry B. Eyring did get his undergraduate degree in physics, even though after that he went into business.
 
tl;dnw, sorry.

I suppose they're possible, but the number of spontaneous activities necessary to make a single one of the simpler cycles possible inside an organism astounds me. In a cycle, complex molecules rely on the existence of the others. According to evolution, these randomly formed, complex molecules just happened to form against the laws of thermodynamics, in very close vicinity, aggregated spontaneously inside the same spherule, and decided to invent the Calvin cycle? That sounds like how a god would miraculously form but not us.

I also wonder why the universe expands at that perfect rate out of nearly infinite possibilities (a term One Brow would scold me for using :)).
I also wonder why convergent evolution has not produced other highly intelligent beings as evolution would predict. Where are the mermaids and men?
I also think God had the deluge to destroy Neanderthals that the Adamaic blood line was mixing with. That's not a joke, I really am that wacky.



Hmm, interesting response. I am learning much of what you have mentioned in my current Biology and/or Physics courses, and a lot of what you said makes a decent amount of sense.

In the end of the day, I just believe in God for reasons I cannot really explain. Life, to me, seems much too coincidental, and journey-like, for there not to be a "bigger-plan" of some sort. Things always seem to work out for the better. I dunno.
 
JazzSpazz, don't be fatuous. I'd like to hear your take as well.

I'm glad babe was able to turn a fairly short and reasonable response into a long-winded bore-a-thon involving the government and constitution. (as only babe knows how to do) Thanks to Colton and franklin for their opinions.

I know there are more people who watched/read/listened to this talk; did nobody else take it like I did?
 
Basically, he had a reasonable point to make, but he is not an articulate or even charismatic speaker. I much prefer the German who completely exudes charisma and has a way of connecting to the audience.
 
Basically, he had a reasonable point to make, but he is not an articulate or even charismatic speaker. I much prefer the German who completely exudes charisma and has a way of connecting to the audience.

To me, this conference was historic in that I don't remember any instances of Uchtdorf mentioning that he was a pilot.
 
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