Abortions.
- Thread starter Harambe
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♪alt13
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Any time you want to have an IQ off let's do it. I do not think IQs are relevant, but I will warn you I am really really good at these sorts of things.
LogGrad98
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Now you are treading on thing ice there moe (which I happen to agree with, and one reason I do not favor abortion as an option). In today's world you are not allowed to imply that someone should refrain from engaging in activities that produce babies if they are not prepared to take on that responsibility. It is much more important to debate the right to kill the baby than even broach the subject that maybe not even having sex in the first place is a viable and maybe even best option. Everyone should be able to do whatever they want to do completely without consequence.
But seriously, you really just put an underscore on the quandry. So the man has one choice: have sex or not, after that his choices are null and void. Yet the woman can have sex all she wants as she has total control over whether to bring the baby into the world or not, and deprive the man of fatherhood or force it on him, regardless of his choices after the fact. Again it is limiting the man's freedom of choice in favor of the woman's. His choices: have sex but only if you want to worry about a baby. Her choice: have sex with no need to worry about a baby since she can just choose whatever she wants to do with it. In essence what he might want out of that act doesn't matter, yet what she wants is the final say in the matter.
LogGrad98
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Succinctly, the man should not be forced to be any more accountable than the woman would be forced to. In that context, the woman will never be forced to be a mother as she can choose an abortion, yet the man can be forced to be a father, at least monetarily, against his wishes. Conversely he cannot choose to be a father if that is his desire as the woman has the sole choice to abort. I think both should be equally accountable, and in this there is no equal accountability.
So equitably, the man should be allowed to, at a bare minimum, legally excuse himself of all responsibilities for the child if the woman chooses to keep it. He should not be forced to pay support if he would have wanted the child aborted and she chose not to. That is not the case in our legal system. A one night stand can result in 18 years of support against the man's will, and at the woman's sole discretion. How is that equal accountability?
What I've suggested is that a man should have to right to give up his part in the responsibility of the child. A "male abortion" wouldn't force a woman to get an abortion, it would just give the man the same privilege to opt out that the woman has. Men don't have that right. If the woman decides she wants to keep the child the man is bound to support that child. It would be like a man getting compensation for pain and suffering from a woman for 18 years if she aborted a child that he wanted to keep.
And he still doesn't get it.
Hantlers
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Perhaps studies have been done, but I think it would be interesting to see the psychological effects that having an abortion has on a woman, especially as they get older and have a child/attempt to have a child.
With that said, typically if you don't want something, you won't do the process that results in you getting that thing. My biggest problem with abortion (other than that I think it is murder) is that it seems like the majority of people don't use it for their own safety concerns, they use it because they don't think they're ready for a child or just don't want a child. They don't want to deal with the consequences of the mistake they made. I feel like if a womans life is in danger through having the child, then I can understand why it should be an option. It should not be an option to those who do not have a safety concern.
With that said, typically if you don't want something, you won't do the process that results in you getting that thing. My biggest problem with abortion (other than that I think it is murder) is that it seems like the majority of people don't use it for their own safety concerns, they use it because they don't think they're ready for a child or just don't want a child. They don't want to deal with the consequences of the mistake they made. I feel like if a womans life is in danger through having the child, then I can understand why it should be an option. It should not be an option to those who do not have a safety concern.
I don't doubt that a man could be violated in a sexual way by a woman. I doubt that any pregnancies have resulted from this.
Do you have a link that shows otherwise? Though I suppose it would depend on exactly what is classified as rape.
and Log, the man has two choices - the same as the woman - if he wants absolute protection against a potential pregnancy. Abstinence is one option, sterilization is another.
And even abstinence is a somewhat ambitious term. And IQ doesn't really matter. High or low, the basic mechanics are still the same. Smart people may need a little bit more help figuring it out however. But the creative types probably will have more fun with it.
You are right they both have that right. But your post in no way addresses the larger point of once a pregnancy does happen, good or bad, that the man is totally at the mercy of the woman. Legally I think men should have an option to divest themselves of raising a child they do not want. Naturally there should be some limits on this.
This here is a fundamental issue that I have a hard time with. Beyond anything else that has been said here, there does seem to be an issue reconciling that a woman has the option to end a fetus without consent of the man, but if a man wants to end the child and the woman does not, he still has to pay child support.
I agree that is is a complicated issue. I think there should be some obvious, to me anyways, limits but it should still be an option.
In a world where many US States are teaching abstinence-only sex education, it takes a massive amount of self-centeredness to say you are even allow to imply abstinence is the best option.
What's your alternative? Are you just whining that this is one domain where men can't exert their privilege as fully as they can in other areas?
Both men and women are equally accountable to any born child. If the mother gives birth and later regrets it, she is just as obligated as the father.
Also, forf many women abortions are emotionally wrought, difficult decisions. I hardly see choosing one as ducking accountability.
How about we agree that, while the woman is pregnant, the man has no obligation to pay child support, but after birth, the father is just as obligated as the mother? That's fair, right?
So, if a woman bears a child, she should have the right to just give it up and not support it, letting a father take on all the bills?
Can you acknowledge the point being made? This is not about males whining about not being able to exert privilege.
Just like there are women (or girls in many cases) who find themselves ill-equipped in every conceivable way to deal with the fetus they conceived via consensual sex, men (boys) can find themselves in that very same situation. Currently the female has several options in how she wants to proceed and the male has none. The female makes his choice for him. Can you not see that there is a certain amount of injustice in that or is it acceptable because the entire male community enjoys privilege, even though an individual boy in this situation is not guilty of creating that social dynamic? He has to pay for the sins of his fathers as it were?
Women can give the child up for adoption, can they not?
Have you heard of cases where sperm donors have been court ordered to pay child support? It has happened.
Men are particularly reluctant to admit they were raped, and sometimes don't even see it that way themselves. But you could be right. Perhaps if the man has not consented, his body has ways of shutting those sperm down so the woman can't become pregnant. Hmmm, I wonder why that sounds familiar?
Not without the consent of the father, to my knowledge. There may be exceptions.
https://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/20...in-case-of-sperm-donor-sued-for-child-support
In this case, the claim is that the law was not properly followed and so the donation contract is void, and it seems the last gavel has not yet rung.
By contrast,
https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/04/11/court-says-arlington-sperm-donor-owes-no-child-support/
no child support was ordered.
Not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China.
Once there is a child, they have the same legal options that women have.