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Hollinger Power Ranking....Utah Jazz ranked 12th WTF???

gregbroncs said:
What Billy said. Hollinger has no opinion. He runs his formula and it tells him what to think. Pretty much scoring margin is his main factor. Silly things like W/L record take a backseat to being able to dominate crappy teams and lose to everybody else.
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It's stupid to say he doesn't have an opinion, since he created the damn formula in the first place. His formula has been awful for years now because it's flawed and laced with what he believes are strong attributes toward figuring out what team is the best.

Remember, for a good portion of the 2nd half of last season, the Jazz ranked #1 in his rankings. Even better than the Lakers. His rankings are useless and I don't understand why ESPN feels the need to continue peddling that crap.
 
calijazz said:
I know that. That doesn't make the ranking system any less flawed. A 2-6 team is rated higher than a 7-3 team just because their schedule is harder. Why don't we just let the teams with the hardest schedules at the end of the season make the playoffs?
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Uhh. Because it isn't the end of the season yet?

If they have a ridiculously hard schedule now, then they will have an easy stretch later. If the Jazz had played LA Boston Miami Orlando, OKC and LA again, and they were 0-7. Would you consider them as bad as the Nets last season?
 
LunaticWolf said:
Actually, you can. If a teams win/loss record is 0-8, but the numbers say they should be 4-4, there is a pretty damn good chance they are going to bounce back.
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Yes, it's likely that the 0-8 team will improve and rise in the standings due to natural correction, but you can't really justify ranking that 0-8 ahead of another team that has a better record, has beaten the 0-8 team in both of their meetings thus far, and isn't having critical injury problems. That's why you can use statistical analysis but not use it exclusively. Besides, at this stage of the season, 8 - 10 games in, the data isn't statistically significant yet. Technically, you should really wait another 10 - 15 games so that you have a reliable data sample. There is too much margin of error to determine who is better among teams that are close to one another. Only teams like the Lakers, Hornets and Celtics clearly stand out at this stage.
 
Catchall said:
Yes, it's likely that the 0-8 team will improve and rise in the standings due to natural correction, but you can't really justify ranking that 0-8 ahead of another team that has a better record, has beaten the 0-8 team in both of their meetings thus far, and isn't having critical injury problems. That's why you can use statistical analysis but not use it exclusively. Besides, at this stage of the season, 8 - 10 games in, the data isn't statistically significant yet. Technically, you should really wait another 10 - 15 games so that you have a reliable data sample. There is too much margin of error to determine who is better among teams that are close to one another. Only teams like the Lakers, Hornets and Celtics clearly stand out at this stage.
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If the sample size is too small to get accurate readings, you can't complain about the results.

I state again, if the Jazz played all of the leagues best teams and were 0-8, you would be completely fine with them being ranked below Minnesota, who has eeked out 3 wins against ****** teams, and been blown out of the building in every other game?
 
You can complain about the results based on historical trends. Hollinger's rankings are consistently off at the end of every season and yet he continues to use them and others continue to use it as gospel.

In March of 2010, Hollinger had Utah ranked 2nd behind Orlando and L.A. all the way down at 4th.

Now the problem with your point, Lunatic, is that you're assuming an 0-8 start comes under the scenario of a team playing the best eight teams in the NBA. That's unlikely. If a team is 0-8, they'll have lost to a sub-par teams along the way.

Look at Houston, who's ahead of the Jazz by a spot. They're 2-6. Why? They lost to Denver like the Jazz. They lost to Golden State like the Jazz. The difference? Their two wins are over Minnesota and Indiana. Two teams that currently sit at or below .500.

To compare, the Jazz have defeated four teams that are currently above .500.

Yet Houston is ranked ahead of Utah because they've been more respectable in their six losses than Utah has been in their three.

Okay - but Houston is not just losing to good teams. They're not beating good teams, either. That's something the Jazz have done.
 
Sean said:
You can complain about the results based on historical trends. Hollinger's rankings are consistently off at the end of every season and yet he continues to use them and others continue to use it as gospel.

In March of 2010, Hollinger had Utah ranked 2nd behind Orlando and L.A. all the way down at 4th.

Now the problem with your point, Lunatic, is that you're assuming an 0-8 start comes under the scenario of a team playing the best eight teams in the NBA. That's unlikely. If a team is 0-8, they'll have lost to a sub-par teams along the way.

Look at Houston, who's ahead of the Jazz by a spot. They're 2-6. Why? They lost to Denver like the Jazz. They lost to Golden State like the Jazz. The difference? Their two wins are over Minnesota and Indiana. Two teams that currently sit at or below .500.

To compare, the Jazz have defeated four teams that are currently above .500.

Yet Houston is ranked ahead of Utah because they've been more respectable in their six losses than Utah has been in their three.

Okay - but Houston is not just losing to good teams. They're not beating good teams, either. That's something the Jazz has done.
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Yes, they were ranked that high, as they had just come off a great winning streak. Have you even looked at the formula he uses? It heavily weighs how teams have played in the last 10 games, or later in the season, their last 25% of games.

Houston has also played the Lakers, the Hornets, and San Antonio, 3 near perfect teams.

Jazz have played a 6-4 Miami team, a 5-3 OKC, and a 6-3 Orlando.

Based on how teams have performed so far, Houston has had a much more difficult schedule than us.
 
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