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If one of our players became a star?

I looked through George's games as well and he had a lot of ups and downs. I compared them to Hayward's and I find it crazy that their fg% is the same. It looks like hayward has a lot of bad shooting games, but I guess we focus on his bad games more then his good games.

George also played very well in the playoffs and I think that was the catalyst to him becoming a star in people's eyes. Obviously hayward won't be able to make an impact like that on our team. Very interesting. There are just so many variables.
 
i think favors is the closest thing to a legit. NBA star on dis team. consistency is what separates the mans from the boys in the superstar department, and he's the most consistently good player on this squad.
Hayward is a good piece but he wont ever be a star imo. jazz will prolly overpay him. no offense to hayward fans.
Alec and Kanter have potential and TyCo really needs to give dem more PT so we can see what they gots.
trey burke is a xfactor due to his size, but the talent is there.
 
I'm just getting bits and pieces here, but if the premise is that Gordon Hayward is just going to up-and-become an MVP candidate then you are up in the night.
 
Doublea said:
I looked through George's games as well and he had a lot of ups and downs. I compared them to Hayward's and I find it crazy that their fg% is the same. It looks like hayward has a lot of bad shooting games, but I guess we focus on his bad games more then his good games.

George also played very well in the playoffs and I think that was the catalyst to him becoming a star in people's eyes. Obviously hayward won't be able to make an impact like that on our team. Very interesting. There are just so many variables.
Click to expand...
I think what sets apart a good player and a star player is what they do at the end of close games. While both George and Hayward may both have low overall shooting percentages, I would bet that George shoots it better in the 4th when the game is in the balance. Other than Haywards career game against OKC, he hasn't been very good late in these situations.



Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Favors is the only legacy young with an outside " Jermaine" shot at greatness.

Trey could be all star caliber but the position is so loaded (and only getting better) that no matter how good he gets itll still be hard for him to outshine the competition. If he does, fan ****ing tastic.


In other words, hoping hard in one hand that this team will blossom like an *** ugly stepdaughter with no prospects is going to fill **** in the other.
 
akirac73 said:
I think what sets apart a good player and a star player is what they do at the end of close games. While both George and Hayward may both have low overall shooting percentages, I would bet that George shoots it better in the 4th when the game is in the balance. Other than Haywards career game against OKC, he hasn't been very good late in these situations.



Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...

With 5 minutes left on the clock. 5 points difference. Ahead or behind. Hayward is averaging %42.3 FG and %42.9 3FG. Paul George is averaging %25 FG and %16.7 3FG.
 
I've been watching a lot of Indianas games. George is good, but some folks on here are overrating him. As are others with Hayward.

George gives meaner looks and dunks harder. Maybe that makes him a perennial superstar?
 
Hekate said:
With 5 minutes left on the clock. 5 points difference. Ahead or behind. Hayward is averaging %42.3 FG and %42.9 3FG. Paul George is averaging %25 FG and %16.7 3FG.
Click to expand...

Is that this year for both of them? Or the two years being first options?
 
phippsj said:
I've been watching a lot of Indianas games. George is good, but some folks on here are overrating him. As are others with Hayward.

George gives meaner looks and dunks harder. Maybe that makes him a perennial superstar?
Click to expand...

That definitely plays a part in it.
 
Hekate said:
With 5 minutes left on the clock. 5 points difference. Ahead or behind. Hayward is averaging %42.3 FG and %42.9 3FG. Paul George is averaging %25 FG and %16.7 3FG.
Click to expand...
thanks for posting this...where did you get this info from btw.
 
gregbroncs said:
Interesting thread.
.
It's undeniable that George had a more polished team around him with a system the players knew. So for Hayward to be putting up similar stats is pretty amazing. The stats are not great but I do think Hayward has the ability to be a really good player. This type of thing is why I've never fully bought into the tank. Internal improvement is just as important to me.
.
And because internal improvement is just as important to me it drives me crazy that Jefferson is getting so many freakin minutes.
Click to expand...

It's not just the players but coaching too.

Who wouldn't take Vogel over Corbin?

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Doublea said:
Personally I'd rather have a cool headed player like Hayward, then one who is crazy like Cousins who hurts his team. Hayward's play gets into peoples heads.
Click to expand...

interesting that you mention boogie here. i remember vs the kings, maybe the game in SAC... there were some subtle signifiers of toughness (or whatever) that made me think gordon is developing some of mongrel that jazz fans so desperately want to see from him. not sure if it was mentioned in the game-thread, but there was a moment after a whistle where cousins tried to swipe the ball away from him and he firmly pulled it away and confidently pushed past him. i feel like if those west/barea moments happened now gordon's response wouldn't be as passive. he's got a steely look in his eye these days.
 
hhhhkau said:
interesting that you mention boogie here. i remember vs the kings, maybe the game in SAC... there were some subtle signifiers of toughness (or whatever) that made me think gordon is developing some of mongrel that jazz fans so desperately want to see from him. not sure if it was mentioned in the game-thread, but there was a moment after a whistle where cousins tried to swipe the ball away from him and he firmly pulled it away and confidently pushed past him. i feel like if those west/barea moments happened now gordon's response wouldn't be as passive. he's got a steely look in his eye these days.
Click to expand...

We need steady headed players on our team. I think you are right though. Hayward is definitely interesting to watch this year. It seems like he has been very inconsistent, but in a way he's doing a lot better then I though. We all say too that his numbers will jump up during the second part of the season so it seems like this will get better then George's.
 
Part I

Once again I don't think Hayward is as good as George and he may never be but the stats both had in their first 37 games looked mostly similar to me. So I looked up the clutch stats as well and also got the shotcharts. So let's take a look.

First of the clutch statistics.

Last 5 MIN <= 5 PTS:

UUMSS4.png


Advanced:
TVJ3MZ.png
Gordon has a higher USG%, he is not turning the ball over as much as George, he is more efficient and has a higher AST%. The only area in Georges favour is his rebounding.

Advantage: Hayward

Last 3 MIN <= 5 PTS:

YNSU6.png


Advanced:
9HMHGN.png
Gordons USG% goes up in the last 3 minutes, he is less efficient (still way better than George), he is losing the ball more(still fewer than George), his AST% goes down a bit(better than George) and while Georges rebounding is improving Gordon is not rebounding as much as before.

Advantage: Hayward

Last 1 MIN <= 5 PTS:

U55481.png


Advanced:
ZA2NFU.png
The last minute of a game is Gordon time. He nearly doubled Georges USG%, is turning over the ball too much but also has a really high AST%. I don't like that eFG% especially in comparison to the league but in contrast to George he is solid.

Advantage: Hayward

Last 5 MIN | +/- 5 PTS:

JHYD5H.png


Advanced:
AWZ5Q7.png
Same old, same old. Gordon the better playmaker, George the better rebounder but he is losing the ball more than Gordon. Similar USG% and eFG%.

Advantage: Hayward

Last 3 MIN | +/- 5 PTS:

ZGT4P.png


Advanced:
LX664S.png
The first time that George has a higher USG%! Still Gordon has the better all around stats.

Advantage: Hayward

To be continued...
 
part II

Last 1 MIN | +/- 5 PTS:

LTWJ84.png


Advanced:
KGWLGX.png
Again, Gordons numerbs are nowhere near perfect but at least he shows up.

I think the clutch stats are a strong positive in Gordons favour and it's actualy not even close. If you want a distributor or a scorer you take Gordon if you need a stop on the other court, now thats an whole other story. But unfortunately there are not many defensive numbers do compare especially clutch stats. The only ones I know of are the DRtg from b-r.com and from mysynergysports.

basketball-reference.com:
[table="width: 500, class: grid, align: left"]
[tr]
[td]Name[/td]
[td]Season[/td]
[td]ORtg[/td]
[td]DRtg[/td]
[td]NetRtg[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Gordon Hayward[/td]
[td]2013/2014[/td]
[td]104[/td]
[td]109[/td]
[td]-5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Paul George[/td]
[td]2012/2013[/td]
[td]100[/td]
[td]96[/td]
[td]+4[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
There really wasn't any doubt about the defensive part and despite his lesser ORtg George was not a negative impact like Gordon unfortunately is this year.

https://mysynergysports.com/:

[table="width: 500, class: grid, align: left"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Hayward(ppp)[/td]
[td]George(ppp)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Overall[/td]
[td]0,94[/td]
[td]0,78[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Iso[/td]
[td]1,08[/td]
[td]0,7[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]P&R Ball Handler[/td]
[td]0,85[/td]
[td]0,6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Post-Up[/td]
[td]1,56[/td]
[td]0,77[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]P&R Roll man[/td]
[td]0,5[/td]
[td]0,73[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Spot-Up[/td]
[td]1,1[/td]
[td]0,88[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Off Screen[/td]
[td]0,7[/td]
[td]0,92[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Hand Off[/td]
[td]0,5[/td]
[td]1,13[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Here are some more defensive stats but these are both from this year. I guess synergysports don't publish past years?!?!

And here are their shotcharts.

Paul George:
VPHV8V.png


Gordon Hayward:
J3WN62.png
George is below the league average(red) in 5 areas, comparable to the league average(yellow) in 5 areas and above league average(green) in 4 areas. Gordon is below the league average(red) in 5 areas, comparable to the league average(yellow) in 6 areas and above league average(green) in 3 areas. Gordon is better inside the arc and George has the advantage behind the arc. The corner three areas are really looking bad for Gordon, it is the easiest three point shot so it has to be average at least.

Again I wouldn't say he will ever be a George type player but Gordon has talent and the Jazz roster has a lots of potential but there is one puzzle piece missing. You get that piece in the draft, keep Gordon and get 1-2 veterans ant you're ready to roll...
 
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