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If one of our players became a star?

Paul George is simply not a superstar, and you cannot run a top-15 offense over the course of a season specifically through him. Maybe he'll grow and prove me wrong, but I highly have my doubts. IMO, Gordon is more offensively capable. George definitely has the edge on defense (and rebounding), but Hayward is the better passer, and transition player. Both good players.
 
orangello said:
It's not just the players but coaching too.

Who wouldn't take Vogel over Corbin?

Sent from the JazzFanz app
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Frank Vogel is a top 3 coach in this league, IMO. What he has gotten out of West, Hibbert, George, Hill, and Stephenson is remarkable-- particularly in contrast to his predecessor at Indiana.
 
So I guess the main questions really is: Is Paul George overrated? and Gordon Hayward underrated?
 
I think Vogel has a huge role in the Pacers success.

It is essential to have All-Stars in the team, but if you don't have good coach you go nowhere.
 
Doublea said:
So I guess the main questions really is: Is Paul George overrated? and Gordon Hayward underrated?
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I think the answer is yes to both questions but just a little bit under and over rated
 
The Thriller said:
Like being bullied by Delonte West or JJ Barea? Definitely the toughness that wins championships. I could see MJ letting John Starks give him a wet willey...

Anyone who even attempts to compare these 2 players has obviously never seen George play or is just grabbing at straws here.

Hayward is a nice role player who scores a lot off opportunistic tip ins and fast break pts: George is one of the best players in the league. You can run your offense through him.

One good game against a crappy OKC team (lost 4 of 6) clearly overlooking the Jazz doesn't make Hayward God. These boards are so desperate for optimism that they've completely given up trying to be objective.
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The comparison is fair.

PG's 1st year being #1 last year was all over the map. (like this year for G)
PG this year is crazy good. Though in a big slump now. (Will Hayward do this next year is the Q?)

Don't know.

I still stand by Hayward worth 10/11 per year.

Someone will offer 13. If Jazz will not match, trade him now. If you will match, no biggie, play on.

Just a business
 
ijazz said:
The comparison is fair.

PG's 1st year being #1 last year was all over the map. (like this year for G)
PG this year is crazy good. Though in a big slump now. (Will Hayward do this next year is the Q?)

Don't know.

I still stand by Hayward worth 10/11 per year.

Someone will offer 13. If Jazz will not match, trade him now. If you will match, no biggie, play on.

Just a business
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I don't think the Jazz will trade him, mostly because they want to see how well he does through this year before matching offers.
 
Doublea said:
I don't think the Jazz will trade him, mostly because they want to see how well he does through this year before matching offers.
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Agreed. I think they let the market set his price with the plan to match it regardless. Don't think the franchise is as low on him as fans are. . . despite his struggles. They tried to get him cheaper by extending him and it didn't work. They still hold all the cards and will probably play it out. I think he probably gets about what they're willing to pay him on the open market.
 
Ellis269 said:
Agreed. I think they let the market set his price with the plan to match it regardless. Don't think the franchise is as low on him as fans are. . . despite his struggles. They tried to get him cheaper by extending him and it didn't work. They still hold all the cards and will probably play it out. I think he probably gets about what they're willing to pay him on the open market.
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The market will set the price, then the Jazz will have the option of keeping him. We'll see what happens, we have money, but I'm sure there is a certain point that we won't sign him, just like how we didn't in the first place.
 
ijazz said:
The comparison is fair.

PG's 1st year being #1 last year was all over the map. (like this year for G)
PG this year is crazy good. Though in a big slump now. (Will Hayward do this next year is the Q?)
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Most players don't take 4 years to become franchise players. Even fewer take 5.
 
Doublea said:
I thought it was the 3-4th year that most players find themselves as players.
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There are no hard rules, but it's generally 3. If Hayward suddenly becomes a franchise player/perennial all-star/MVP candidate one time ever at year 5 then it will be weird.
 
NUMBERICA said:
There are no hard rules, but it's generally 3. If Hayward suddenly becomes a franchise player/perennial all-star/MVP candidate one time ever at year 5 then it will be weird.
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The only player I can think of that took forever to finally reach his potential is Steve Nash. It wasn't until his 6th season when he solidified himself as a real franchise player/perennial all-star/MVP/future HOF player. Prior to that he was thought of only as a very good role player/contributor (sort of how we talk about Hayward). This is an extreme rare case though...
 
akirac73 said:
The only player I can think of that took forever to finally reach his potential is Steve Nash. It wasn't until his 6th season when he solidified himself as a real franchise player/perennial all-star/MVP/future HOF player. Prior to that he was thought of only as a very good role player/contributor (sort of how we talk about Hayward). This is an extreme rare case though...
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nash wasnt a mvp/hof player in his 6th season bro, that was the 1st year he made the allstar game,
 
HeavenHarris said:
nash wasnt a mvp/hof player in his 6th season bro, that was the 1st year he made the allstar game,
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C'mon guy...don't play dumb...you know what I mean. That was the first of many all star games he would go on to participate in and was the start of his "stardom". Nobody in the history of the NBA ever became a hall of famer in their 6th season.
 
akirac73 said:
The only player I can think of that took forever to finally reach his potential is Steve Nash. It wasn't until his 6th season when he solidified himself as a real franchise player/perennial all-star/MVP/future HOF player. Prior to that he was thought of only as a very good role player/contributor (sort of how we talk about Hayward). This is an extreme rare case though...
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So you're saying there's a chance.
 
Hayward is basically turning into Deng, almost as good. A high minute guy who, by extension, will always have great per game stats, and always be a fringe all star selection. Like Deng, Hayward can't drive or create his own shot, but is an upper level glue guy for what he does on and off the court, and a great third option.

Deng has also been overpaid and overappreciated over the course of his career, largely because his character is impeccable and his performance is so dependable. Deng is a good player, as is Gordon, but my guess is Lindsey is well aware Hayward is not going to turn into Bird, and that falling into the Deng trap isn't an option.
 
Favors has the best chance to turn into a star, but he's already signed so it doesn't matter. Otherwise, Burks is the only other guy. His ability to drive is elite, but he still has to prove he can do it against first units. (He also needs a coach that is willing to turn him loose, but I digress.) I'd bet on Burks becoming a better version of Ellis, although I'm not sure it will be with us.
 
billyshelby said:
Favors has the best chance to turn into a star, but he's already signed so it doesn't matter. Otherwise, Burks is the only other guy. His ability to drive is elite, but he still has to prove he can do it against first units. (He also needs a coach that is willing to turn him loose, but I digress.) I'd bet on Burks becoming a better version of Ellis, although I'm not sure it will be with us.
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It'll be hard for Burks to do that coming off the bench.

I like what our players have been doing so far this season, a lot of improvement with new roles.
 
billyshelby said:
Favors has the best chance to turn into a star, but he's already signed so it doesn't matter. Otherwise, Burks is the only other guy. His ability to drive is elite, but he still has to prove he can do it against first units. (He also needs a coach that is willing to turn him loose, but I digress.) I'd bet on Burks becoming a better version of Ellis, although I'm not sure it will be with us.
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Good call with the ellis comparison
repped
 
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