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Science vs. Creationism

Not even an Amoeba is without intelligence and choice or the power to act to preserve and propagate "life", and is therefore an illustration of "intelligent design" in it's own actions within its own scope of life.

As the Bible says, all things demonstrate the reality of God.

As we already talked Bible is just a fairy tale book for adults. It is up to every person to chose to believe it or not. But it is not science. It is collections of tales and myths written thousands of years ago in dark ages by uneducated shepherds who believed that Earth is center of the world, is flat and Sun orbits it. It has same value as Greek mythology, Nordic pagan legends, etc, etc.
And amoeba is nothing but primitive protozoan without any intelligence and in no way is any kind of proof of "intelligent design".
The mere fact that there is so many mutations in the animal kingdom ( including humans ) denies any kind of intelligence. Don't you think your intelligent designer would have made sure that Down Syndrome, Siamese Twins, Werners syndrome, Tay-Sachs Disease, Niemann-Pick Disease, Cystic Fibrosis and other devastating genetic conditions would not happen? Maybe wasn't that intelligent at the end of the day lol.
 
That's all very true but problem is they really do not ask any serious or valid questions. Think this way, if they would present any kind of serious evidence against evolution wouldn't more scientist would follow? Wouldn't that 0.14% steadily increase through the years? I mean if it would be 14% vs 86% than I would consider it a bit more valid but 14 scientists vs 986 ?

That ain't 0.14%. Add another 9.

P.S. I have no idea if the 0.14% statistic is correct. I'm just here to check the math.
 
The jumps from non vertebrae to vertebrae and asexual to sexual reproduction are the most problematic for a Darwinist to explain without sounding completely ridiculous to me.

But you accept woman being made from man's rib as perfectly "not ridiculous" way of creation;)
 
thanks, makes my point even more valid. 14 vs 9986.

Precisely. That's why I added the caveat that I didn't know if you number was correct. But if it is, it does make your point that much more valid.
 
Explain for me the evidence for intelligent design. The last few pages have been all about evolution. How I am ever to know the truth if you will not present it to me. Please blow my mind.

The human brain is responsible for the yawning abyss that exists between even the most intelligent animal and an average human. As professors of human biology Drs. Ornstein and Thompson wrote in The Amazing Brain: “The ability of the human mind to learn—to store and recall information—is the most remarkable phenomenon in the biological universe. Everything that makes us human—language, thought, knowledge, culture—is the result of this extraordinary capability.”

Now, if this insight into the brain truly impresses you, should you not at least consider the possibility that an intelligent Designer and Creator is responsible for this complex organ? The Bible writer and lawyer Paul reasoned this way: “For all that may be known of God by men lies plain before their eyes .*.*. His invisible attributes, that is to say his everlasting power and deity, have been visible, ever since the world began, to the eye of reason, in the things he has made.”—Romans 1:19, 20, The New English Bible.
 
The human brain is responsible for the yawning abyss that exists between even the most intelligent animal and an average human. As professors of human biology Drs. Ornstein and Thompson wrote in The Amazing Brain: “The ability of the human mind to learn—to store and recall information—is the most remarkable phenomenon in the biological universe. Everything that makes us human—language, thought, knowledge, culture—is the result of this extraordinary capability.”

Now, if this insight into the brain truly impresses you, should you not at least consider the possibility that an intelligent Designer and Creator is responsible for this complex organ? The Bible writer and lawyer Paul reasoned this way: “For all that may be known of God by men lies plain before their eyes .*.*. His invisible attributes, that is to say his everlasting power and deity, have been visible, ever since the world began, to the eye of reason, in the things he has made.”—Romans 1:19, 20, The New English Bible.

please see post #372
https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?24905-Science-vs-Creationism&p=784570&viewfull=1#post784570
 
Nah babe. Science is following the evidence wherever it may lead. It's about trying to discover the truth. What you describe as real science is having an agenda and being dogmatic. You cannot ignore evidence and expect to be taken seriously. You cannot supplant data and observation with tales of watches and religious stories and call it science. That is dogmatic.

The Bible was written by mere mortals and in some ways does reflect some of the beliefs and attitudes of the people of those times, but you insist on being blind to the things in the Bible that defy your simple prejudices, just like you refuse to understand what I actually said and insist on arguing with your own straw man notions. Your logic fails.

If you start with a belief in no God and no principle of action but atoms and molecules governed by simple forces/energies/fields like electricity, magnitism, gravity and such, believing that this is enough to explain everything in the universe, you are a priest in your own right, holding forth a dogma that admits of no challenge from anything else.

You are the exact same thing in this as a priest who has never questioned his religious definitions and principles, and will admit of no possible randomness in creation. I don't deny that a lot of different processes are happening, including unplanned or random events, I say that living things exert a sort of life force on the fabric of their existence, and do some things that can't be explained by accidents of nature. Even amoeba do this in some ways.

The scientists you use as a crutch of denial routinely do just what I am claiming all life does at some level of organization, in effect "playing god" as they use specific knowledge to exert intentioned effects on living things. Some folks wouldn't think an amoeba has "intelligence" and would attribute responses to chemicals binding on cellular membranes and such, and would presume that such simple cells survive changes in their environment on a merely statistical distribution of properties, ignoring some bizarre and seldom-considered "actions" that can be compared to "communication" with other cells, photo-electric phenomena that at first glance would not have any purpose at all.

I'm not getting these kinds of ideas out of the Bible, but from a soviet scientist of the past generation, who developed a godless sort of "life force" idea, imputing to living things the power to create conditions favorable to life and the power to create new capacities for survival. . . .

I simply combine his scientific observations with the notion that of course, if there is a being, or class of beings "like humans" that has existed for any length of time, of course we should expect to see the effects of design and purposed changes all through the history of life.

We have the capacity to tilt the table of statistics and promote things we care to develop in living things. Why would you presume we are the first to ever do so? And such power is in essence the kernel concept of "God" or "Creator".

Your religion is to deny the possible existence of someone like yourself, who has existed before you. I am simply trying to point out how absurd your dogma is.
 
@pearl you only asked how lungs evolved... Not how Human lungs evolved! Evolution is all about a step by step process...

@CJ evolution is not about creating the perfect organism... It's about selecting the traits best fit for the current environment... Take the human eye very complex but look at a squids eye more advanced(no blind spot), but most would say that humans are more advanced, nope they are just more suited for their environment!!!
 
The Bible was written by mere mortals and in some ways does reflect some of the beliefs and attitudes of the people of those times, but you insist on being blind to the things in the Bible that defy your simple prejudices, just like you refuse to understand what I actually said and insist on arguing with your own straw man notions. Your logic fails.
There is no straw man in my post. The straw man is you trying to equate my atheism with my position on evolution.

If you start with a belief in no God and no principle of action but atoms and molecules governed by simple forces/energies/fields like electricity, magnitism, gravity and such, believing that this is enough to explain everything in the universe, you are a priest in your own right, holding forth a dogma that admits of no challenge from anything else.

So I am a dogmatic priest because I choose not to believe in something you cannot prove? Prove it, and I will believe. If I get polemical about anything it is a repudiation of the bible not god. To be clear: Noah silly, Genesis silly, Leviticus and Deuteronomy immoral barbarous garbage, virgin birth silly, resurrection silly. None of that is a denial of god just the "good book".

As for god. I don't see the logic in it. Why does it make sense that the universe was created by something more complex than the universe itself? Where did god come from? I do not know(and neither do you)what happened before the known universe. Will I ever know, probably not. Will humanity ever know, maybe.
You are the exact same thing in this as a priest who has never questioned his religious definitions and principles, and will admit of no possible randomness in creation. I don't deny that a lot of different processes are happening, including unplanned or random events, I say that living things exert a sort of life force on the fabric of their existence, and do some things that can't be explained by accidents of nature. Even amoeba do this in some ways.

The scientists you use as a crutch of denial routinely do just what I am claiming all life does at some level of organization, in effect "playing god" as they use specific knowledge to exert intentioned effects on living things. Some folks wouldn't think an amoeba has "intelligence" and would attribute responses to chemicals binding on cellular membranes and such, and would presume that such simple cells survive changes in their environment on a merely statistical distribution of properties, ignoring some bizarre and seldom-considered "actions" that can be compared to "communication" with other cells, photo-electric phenomena that at first glance would not have any purpose at all.
It is a crutch of denial for me to accept grade school biology? Would it not be extremely arrogant of me to disregard all the fossils that have been gathered, all the genetic samples taken, and all the microscopes peered through in favor of my own opinion?

I'm not getting these kinds of ideas out of the Bible, but from a soviet scientist of the past generation, who developed a godless sort of "life force" idea, imputing to living things the power to create conditions favorable to life and the power to create new capacities for survival. . . .

I simply combine his scientific observations with the notion that of course, if there is a being, or class of beings "like humans" that has existed for any length of time, of course we should expect to see the effects of design and purposed changes all through the history of life.

I'm afraid you have me at a disadvantage here. I do not know of the Soviet that you are referring to and so it would be unfair for me to comment on him/her. A name or a link would help.

We have the capacity to tilt the table of statistics and promote things we care to develop in living things. Why would you presume we are the first to ever do so? And such power is in essence the kernel concept of "God" or "Creator".

I simply choose not to anthropomorphize nature.

Your religion is to deny the possible existence of someone like yourself, who has existed before you. I am simply trying to point out how absurd your dogma is.
Yes and failing quite horribly to do so.
 
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