What's new
By:

Longest Thread Ever

In discussing consciousness and even existence I posed this question to my kids: can you prove, with irrefutable evidence, that the universe as it is now constituted, with all matter and human history in exactly this form, wasn't created at the time of your birth, just for YOU. Or conversely can you disprove the idea that you are the only thing that truly exists and everyone and everything else is merely a perfect and complete construct to provide you with a fully believable and "real" existence, while none of it is actually real at all.
 
LogGrad98 said:
In discussing consciousness and even existence I posed this question to my kids: can you prove, with irrefutable evidence, that the universe as it is now constituted, with all matter and human history in exactly this form, wasn't created at the time of your birth, just for YOU. Or conversely can you disprove the idea that you are the only thing that truly exists and everyone and everything else is merely a perfect and complete construct to provide you with a fully believable and "real" existence, while none of it is actually real at all.
Click to expand...

My kids would giggle at this, I think. They know pretty well what "imaginary" means. They play imaginary games all the time. Enough to give them some concrete notion of "reality" and how it is different from imagination.

Because a lot of stuff happens, and can be observed from a distance, that clearly in not something they are imagining.

But this particular comment is a close kin to many a philosopher's dawdlings along various and sundry riverbanks on warm summer days. . .. .. .Alice in Wonderland comes to mind. . . . .
 
Science as the college-educated Cousin of Consciousness

Science as a discipline is nested in a set of axioms about objectivity, time, space, and matter, positing various notions such as our ability to accurately observe, measure, and interpret things. It is a more formal sort of "consciousness", well-bred and well-educated, and hopefully well-mannered. . . .

Consciousness is a direct experience both seen and quantified by our onboard senses. . . ..

I think it is also a cousin to "Conscience", or a sense of personal judgments about what we should and should not do. . . . .
 
Art as the beautiful romance of Consciousness and Dreams

There is an art to life, I think. . . .

how to love self, others, and stuff. . . . .

how to dream, and choose. . . . .

how to have fun. . . . .
 
babe said:
My kids would giggle at this, I think. They know pretty well what "imaginary" means. They play imaginary games all the time. Enough to give them some concrete notion of "reality" and how it is different from imagination.

Because a lot of stuff happens, and can be observed from a distance, that clearly in not something they are imagining.

But this particular comment is a close kin to many a philosopher's dawdlings along various and sundry riverbanks on warm summer days. . .. .. .Alice in Wonderland comes to mind. . . . .
Click to expand...

There is a difference between imagination and illusion. The question is can you prove it with irrefutable objective evidence, when the problem is posed such that everything you see and experience is created perfectly with the express purpose of convincing you that everything is real, when in reality you are the only thing in it that is truly real. You imagination, therefore, has very little to do with your perceptions of a "reality" designed specifically to convince YOU that it is indeed real, even while it actually is not.
 
babe said:
I just don't see this as sarcasm, not in the least. For a second I wondered if you were being sarcastic in saying that, but I had to rule it out entirely as unthinkable, because I know you. . . . or think I know you. . . . , I have to consider this to be a sweet sort of compliment, nothing less.

The only person on this board who knows you well enough to make that judgment is ****, who also is incapable of sarcasm.

Log obviously was speaking from the ideological mindset of Mormonism, which places Man at the apex of creation because of the fact that no man has ever been an idiot, a moron, or even been wrong about anything in all the ages of human experience, and properly should receive the grateful acknowledgment of his godliness from his women, who could never actually be right about anything because of the effects of their hormonal floods on their perceptions of reality. . . . .

The fundamental fact of science is that men have been perfected by God in His final act of making Man like himself, by the effects of testosterone exerted in the embryonic development of the male brain, essentially perfecting that instrument of truth and logic by clipping the great majority of interconnecting nerves between the left and right hemispheres, which enables Man to literally function in unconscious denial of ninety percent of the sensory inputs which trouble women with information about the universe.
Click to expand...

Damnit!

I can't compete with the power of your brilliant man brain!
 
LogGrad98 said:
There is a difference between imagination and illusion. The question is can you prove it with irrefutable objective evidence, when the problem is posed such that everything you see and experience is created perfectly with the express purpose of convincing you that everything is real, when in reality you are the only thing in it that is truly real. You imagination, therefore, has very little to do with your perceptions of a "reality" designed specifically to convince YOU that it is indeed real, even while it actually is not.
Click to expand...

Behold! human beings living in an underground den, which has a mouth opem toward the light and reaching all along the den; here they have been from their childhood, and have their legs and necks chained so that they cannot move, and can only see before them, being prevented by the chains from turning round their heads. Above and behind them a fire is blazing at a distance, and between the fire and the prisoners there is a raised way; and you will see, if you look, a low wall built along the way, like the screen which marionette-players have in front of them, over which they show the puppets.
Do you see men passing along the wall carrying all sorts of vessels, and statues and figures of animals, which appear over the wall?

...And suppose further that the prison had an echo which came from the other side, would they not be sure to fancy when one of the passers-by spoke that the voice that they heard came from the passing shadow?
No question, he replied.
To them, I said, the truth would be literally nothing but the shadows of the images.
 
heyhey said:
Behold! human beings living in an underground den, which has a mouth opem toward the light and reaching all along the den; here they have been from their childhood, and have their legs and necks chained so that they cannot move, and can only see before them, being prevented by the chains from turning round their heads. Above and behind them a fire is blazing at a distance, and between the fire and the prisoners there is a raised way; and you will see, if you look, a low wall built along the way, like the screen which marionette-players have in front of them, over which they show the puppets.
Do you see men passing along the wall carrying all sorts of vessels, and statues and figures of animals, which appear over the wall?

...And suppose further that the prison had an echo which came from the other side, would they not be sure to fancy when one of the passers-by spoke that the voice that they heard came from the passing shadow?
No question, he replied.
To them, I said, the truth would be literally nothing but the shadows of the images.
Click to expand...

Kinda cute of you to bring up Aristotle's cave. My first trip into philosophy. . . .
 
babe said:
Kinda cute of you to bring up Aristotle's cave. My first trip into philosophy. . . .
Click to expand...

k?

Sounded a lot like what log posted so I posted it. I'm not sure why it's cute. It was my first trip into philosophy as well and I still enjoy it. Does the fact that the Republic is popular really detract from it for you? What is it with peoples obsession with the novel or to have some secret knowledge? Why can't a classic be appreciated without it being scoffed at in our culture?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top