Let' cut ties with Quinn and hire George Karl
- Thread starter Lakers_Slapper
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Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
Michael Malone is available now too, he is also a good Snyder replacement.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
He'd be even better as a Snyder assistant. Let him do what he does best. . . build a lock-down defense. I bet that every player on the team would benefit from a Snyder/Malone combo on the bench. I realize that you don't like Snyder, but he's doing exactly what he was hired to do. The kids are improving, playing hard and having fun. Quin is fine. It's the fickle fans that need to go.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
Fickle?? I've been a fan for 26 years. When my team sits at 7W and 19L, then its apparent that things are wrong. I highly doubt that he was hired to win 25% of games played. If so, then lets look at the people who hired him.
If you want to have a conversation regarding some topic, you'll have to be the catalyst here. Again, what's my original idea regarding what? Be more specific and less emotional.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
It wasn't necessarily directed at you, but your argument is definitely in the crosshairs. And yes, fickle fans can take a hike. This board has been so bipolar this year, it's ridiculous. They fluctuate from awful to awesome and back again.
This team is in full blown rebuild mode. It started last year. Not five years ago. Not nine years ago. Last year. There's not a single coach that could come in and completely change it's success overnight without wholesale changes to the roster. . . changes that will cost the team assets and cash.
They've decided - from the Millers down to the ball boys - to develop the young guys, give them a chance to play together and see exactly what they already have on the roster. They were never going to win a lot of games this year. But they have shown considerable improvement from last year and early this season, with all of the key young guys (Favors, Gobert, Kanter, Hayward, Burks, Exum and even Burke) showing periodic flashes of brilliance. Those flashes haven't been enought to translate into wins and, but knee-jerk reactions to a poor record are the types of things that keep franchises in the basement.
The Jazz have lost a bunch of games this year because the bench is crap. That was by design. They want the core guys to be competitive and try to win, while having one arm tied behind their backs because the bench gets outscored by an outrageous clip. And yet all they young guys are playing hard, working their asses off, showing improvement and having fun.
I don't care how long you've been a fan of the Jazz. Your longevity doesn't make you right. It's a bad premise and a bad thread. The Jazz do need to fix their defense, and they need to Lear to close out games. Firing QS a quarter into his rookie season won't solve those issues and would have a seriously negative effect on this team.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I can't tell if people really believe this garbage, or if they're just trolling. If it's the former, then Heaven help us. If it's the latter, then trolling has become more fun around here than rooting for the Jazz.
Hiring Mark Jackson is a terrible idea. Putting aside the issue of bad blood between him and the fan base, he's a guy who cares more about himself than his team. No amount of success is worth the toxic environment that he created there. He held that team back, not the other way around. I wouldn't want him associated with my franchise in any way. Let the Kings court him.
Sometimes I just think folks have these little mini-aneurisms right before they post and that's why so much garbage gets posted.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
The young guys are working hard, and they are improving. There are some good things that Snyder is doing that are great. I don't believe that firing staff is always the right decision. I just think that in planning for the future the Jazz could make some improvements at the position. He is doing an ok job for the time being - I give you that. Is he the guy for the future? Many of us thought he would be at the time of hire.
I don't think they are having fun, because when your losing games you (as a player) know you should win there is no fun in it.
There are problems with every team. The coaches job is to improve on those weaknesses. I think everyone could agree that the Jazz should be doing better than what we are doing given our talent. We're not that untalented of a team. We have some really good pieces and as they mature we will be better. With the right leader we could be great.
When playing 500.+ teams we are 2-13. That's not who we are. There is no excuse for tanking. You demoralize your team and teach them losing is ok. They are brought up in college to have a winning attitude, when they get to the NBA they are taught to lose?? Even if that's the teams intentions than shame on the team. If you do that and not tell your players (why would they) does a team really think that the players are stupid enough not to figure it out? That is as demoralizing to a teams spirits as it gets. I would like to think our team is not tanking. I liked the word you used as "rebuilding" a lot better. I think that is a much more accurate way to put the Jazz situation. There is a big difference between the two. Your right in saying the Jazz are rebuilding.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
As I see it, the Jazz have lost a number of games this year for 3 reasons.
#1. They don't have a star player yet.
#2. They have been playing terrible defense so far.
#3. Their bench does not score enough to keep from falling behind.
(#1) The Jazz are hoping that they either have a star player who will emerge as they develop (my top two guesses are Exum or Gobert), or they're counting on having enough assets to get one here this year or (more likely) next year. Hayward has elevated his game to an All Star level, and Favors has looked really good most of the time as well. Kanter, Gobert, Exum and Burke have all shown flashes, but none are at the level of, say, Anthony Davis, Damian Lilliard or James Harden. Imagine how good they'd be with any ONE of those guys leading the team. . . it completely changes the scope and outlook of this team. They will continue to struggle until they acquire or develop that player.
(#2) The offense has been a huge improvement over last year, but the defense still disappoints. Kanter and Burke both started off the season about as bad as I've ever seen players defend. Kanter has been playing much better lately and looks like he has a future here. Trey needs to get it figured out if he wants to stick. . . even as a reserve. Gobert has been a breath of fresh air, and Exum looks like he has the potential to be elite. I'm the kind of person who likes to tackle issues and problems head on. I really hope the team looks at Mike Malone and tries to lock him up if they can. I think that he'd build a strong defense around those two.
(#3) There's simply no scoring off the bench. It's abysmal, and they will struggle to win consistently until tgey fix that. I believe that they will add two solid players this offseason - one in free agency and one through the draft. Plus they have the opportunity to add both of their key Euro assets this offseason if they want to. The bench will also get a boost from Gobert and Exum moving into the starting lineup at some point. They simply need more talent to overcome their depth scoring issues. There's been a pattern to several of the losses. Hang early, fall way behind, fight back to within reach and then lose a close one at the end. Solve the bench issues and it should directly improve the team's success.
#1. They don't have a star player yet.
#2. They have been playing terrible defense so far.
#3. Their bench does not score enough to keep from falling behind.
(#1) The Jazz are hoping that they either have a star player who will emerge as they develop (my top two guesses are Exum or Gobert), or they're counting on having enough assets to get one here this year or (more likely) next year. Hayward has elevated his game to an All Star level, and Favors has looked really good most of the time as well. Kanter, Gobert, Exum and Burke have all shown flashes, but none are at the level of, say, Anthony Davis, Damian Lilliard or James Harden. Imagine how good they'd be with any ONE of those guys leading the team. . . it completely changes the scope and outlook of this team. They will continue to struggle until they acquire or develop that player.
(#2) The offense has been a huge improvement over last year, but the defense still disappoints. Kanter and Burke both started off the season about as bad as I've ever seen players defend. Kanter has been playing much better lately and looks like he has a future here. Trey needs to get it figured out if he wants to stick. . . even as a reserve. Gobert has been a breath of fresh air, and Exum looks like he has the potential to be elite. I'm the kind of person who likes to tackle issues and problems head on. I really hope the team looks at Mike Malone and tries to lock him up if they can. I think that he'd build a strong defense around those two.
(#3) There's simply no scoring off the bench. It's abysmal, and they will struggle to win consistently until tgey fix that. I believe that they will add two solid players this offseason - one in free agency and one through the draft. Plus they have the opportunity to add both of their key Euro assets this offseason if they want to. The bench will also get a boost from Gobert and Exum moving into the starting lineup at some point. They simply need more talent to overcome their depth scoring issues. There's been a pattern to several of the losses. Hang early, fall way behind, fight back to within reach and then lose a close one at the end. Solve the bench issues and it should directly improve the team's success.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
Even if the Jazz develop more of a shared-star player responsibility like the Warriors do, We could do a lot of damage. The bench is our greatest objective that we have to overcome. The good thing is we have a little available cap space left, and if we do it right, we could be a feared W.C. team in several years.
Ellipse
Well-Known Member
I never thought that the purpose of a crappy bench was so we could tank, I believe it was to keep the coach from having the option of playing them ahead of our core. I don't think DL signed Richard Jefferson and Marvin Williams with the intent of having Corbin play them ahead of Kanter and Burks, but that is what happened and it screwed with our rebuild. So, DL made sure that it would not happen again.
b_line
Well-Known Member
Guys, hayward is already a star. That dude is awesome. Exum might be a superstar. Hopefully.
Quin has the team practicing extremely hard. He is not concerned about losing at this time. By the end of the season this team will be significantly better than they looked at the beginning of the season. And that is what quin was hired for.
Quin has the team practicing extremely hard. He is not concerned about losing at this time. By the end of the season this team will be significantly better than they looked at the beginning of the season. And that is what quin was hired for.
fishonjazz
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This
Stated well.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
I don't think everyone could or should agree with that. I think they are on about the pace they should have been expected to be on by anybody reasonably looking at the situation. This team is not underperforming. They are struggling to win at the end and are having stretches where they struggle. Those stretches are costing them games. But guess what that is the ultimate sign of a young team learning. They have been in games this year and they are actually running a system.
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You are being a fickle fan as Ellis269 pointed out because the results you expected and are requiring of this team are unrealistic.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
That would be sad if it were the case. As a GM you hire the appropriate coach for what your plan is, not the other way around signing certain players so that the coach doesn't screw up.
I cannot find it now but I read that Quin had the team watching film and in team discussions during the middl eof this 4 game sin 5 nights stretch. I think Quin is very dialed in and projecting that to the players.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
I'd love to be a fly on the wall during those discussions.