For the first 20 or so games of the year I just viewed him as a bad acquisition and a waste of cap space but I'm really liking the way he is starting to fit in. I don't think a Kessler, JC, Lauri starting front court is in the cards like I'm assuming Ainge and the front office imagined but he and Lauri are working very well together. He has proven to be solid at the center position and Kessler has flourished in his role as our defensive big off the bench. If he keeps up his current level of play then I think he is building some positive trade value but I kind of want to keep him around now.
How are you feeling about John Collins?
- Thread starter sip
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I like him but contract is pretty bad. If a team wanted to give us an asset for him with expiring contracts I’d take it.
He's giving the Jazz a good blueprint of how the offense can work with a more 5 out based approach. Him and Sexton seem to be building more PNR chemistry.
According to NBA.com he's in the 84th percentile as the roll man this year and Sexton is now in the 67th percentile as the ball-handler, which IIRC is a big improvement from where he was when I looked last time.
The encouraging thing about Collins this season has been he's actually played better basketball as the season has gone on while his 3pt shot consistency has dipped. If he can combine how he has played the last month or so and combine that with his 3pt shooting from early on, the Jazz are a truly filthy 5 out team.
The defense is probably always going to be mid at best, but that's why you have Walker for those 20 mpg. Hopefully at some point Walker figures out how to play basketball outside of just protecting the rim, but until then we have Collins. I would be hesitant to straight dump him, even if we got a 2nd round pick or two back.
According to NBA.com he's in the 84th percentile as the roll man this year and Sexton is now in the 67th percentile as the ball-handler, which IIRC is a big improvement from where he was when I looked last time.
The encouraging thing about Collins this season has been he's actually played better basketball as the season has gone on while his 3pt shot consistency has dipped. If he can combine how he has played the last month or so and combine that with his 3pt shooting from early on, the Jazz are a truly filthy 5 out team.
The defense is probably always going to be mid at best, but that's why you have Walker for those 20 mpg. Hopefully at some point Walker figures out how to play basketball outside of just protecting the rim, but until then we have Collins. I would be hesitant to straight dump him, even if we got a 2nd round pick or two back.
Like if we are dumping Collins, there has to be some kind of reason and use for the cap we create, not just creating cap and hoping something happens down the road. I think Collins is too good for that.
Handlogten's Heros
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Kinda where I am right now. I love the idea of clearing cap space... then I look at the FA list and I don't get really enthused. Lots of things we could do with space but there are also ample salary dumping grounds this summer (Detroit, Charlotte, Wiz, SA) and I don't see a lot of opportunity to take on salary for picks. I think if we move KO there could be some minutes we'd want Collins to soak up.
I think he's increasing his value right now. I'd take a get out of jail free card or a minor asset on top of that... but not really feeling any urgency to force it to happen.
Tanktastic
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Like a lot of what he does on offense. Strongly dislike his defense and especially the transition defense. Run back at least a few times.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
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Needs to be traded asap.
Release the Kraken
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I enjoy having Collins on the team. He’s a seamless fit, gets along with everybody and may be #1 in popularity. Fit is important if guys are to play well together imo. May have something to do with the rate at which guys are finding him for oops and the rate at which he’s converting them. League leader? And as we all know, he’s an assassin from three as well.
It’s remarkable to me how well he rebounds as well - what he lacks in height and reach he compensates for with heart, hops and timing. I agree that he gets a little lazy on the defensive end sometimes. But he doesn’t back down to anybody and few would stand and take a charge against a freight train like Nick Richard’s the way that Collins did last night.
It’s remarkable to me how well he rebounds as well - what he lacks in height and reach he compensates for with heart, hops and timing. I agree that he gets a little lazy on the defensive end sometimes. But he doesn’t back down to anybody and few would stand and take a charge against a freight train like Nick Richard’s the way that Collins did last night.
brooklynese
Member
What a fine take here. Fortified with interesting stats to boot. I like Collins. When I ask myself what is missing with him I overthink it. It's the D of course. It's mid at best, as Saint notes above. If he was a bit more of an ***hole he'd be a better there. Needs more salt. But for sure he's not just running around somewhat aimlessly as in early in the season. Hardy is right, at least in this system, Collins is a 5. Many NBA careers revived in Utah. Impressive.
Chet would really be the perfect fit next to Collins. Lauri is good offensively for him, but defensively Lauri isnt as strong as you'd want a 7'er of his athleticism to be.
Tremendous Upside
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I'll just interrupt the lovefest to remind you that in the NBA, your position is the one you can defend. The incredible evolution of team defenses has muddled the issue somewhat (and we all know about the few notable exceptions like Draymond), but IMO the rule still applies pretty well to starters in particular. Collins cannot defend the 5 spot, so ideally he's more like a bench center used for spot duty or a starting 4 who wants to hang our near the basket (which is not ideal in the modern NBA where the "PF" should be a floor spreader above all else).
I mean the whole league considers Collins a tweener and his time in Utah hasn't changed that. If we want to play him in the middle, it immediately creates a defensive problem. Kessler is the only guy on the regular rotation who can really improve the rim protection / low post D of the Collins lineups, and those two are very incompatible on the other side of the ball because Walker parking himself and his defender near the basket prevents John from doing the things he does best (diving/flying in from the weak side for oops and offensive rebounds).
In short, Collins is a bit of a luxury to begin with, and his contract exacerbates the situation. This is basically why Atlanta traded him, and the exact same factors are in play here. John has played well lately, but his role has largely been that of a pogo stick garbage man who crashes the offensive boards hard and gets an alley now and then when the D forgets him. And paying a garbage man over $25 million is just stupid. But hey, it's not my money, and I wouldn't trade Collins now as the offense is really humming.
As an aside – I hope people realize how much it hurts us that Walker is so ridiculously one-dimensional and lacks all ball skills. He's part of the Collins problem as he prevents us from using many player combinations that would otherwise work. Moving Kessler to the bench has been one of Hardy's best decisions ever.
I mean the whole league considers Collins a tweener and his time in Utah hasn't changed that. If we want to play him in the middle, it immediately creates a defensive problem. Kessler is the only guy on the regular rotation who can really improve the rim protection / low post D of the Collins lineups, and those two are very incompatible on the other side of the ball because Walker parking himself and his defender near the basket prevents John from doing the things he does best (diving/flying in from the weak side for oops and offensive rebounds).
In short, Collins is a bit of a luxury to begin with, and his contract exacerbates the situation. This is basically why Atlanta traded him, and the exact same factors are in play here. John has played well lately, but his role has largely been that of a pogo stick garbage man who crashes the offensive boards hard and gets an alley now and then when the D forgets him. And paying a garbage man over $25 million is just stupid. But hey, it's not my money, and I wouldn't trade Collins now as the offense is really humming.
As an aside – I hope people realize how much it hurts us that Walker is so ridiculously one-dimensional and lacks all ball skills. He's part of the Collins problem as he prevents us from using many player combinations that would otherwise work. Moving Kessler to the bench has been one of Hardy's best decisions ever.
Given that we supposedly tried to trade for Porzingiz and Holiday but ended up with the Collins and retaining Dunn, is that a potential indication to how Danny plans to build this team?
Tremendous Upside
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HermanG
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Why would you of all people interrupt the lovefest? After 20 or so games you and few of the other posters were shamelessly bashing him on every possible opportunity, and now that he does deserve some flowers for improving you want to stop that. This is merely balancing that earlier act of pessimism that was equally tilted and dramatized but to the other way. I told you back then that he comes from one of the dumbest offensive systems known to man (not the Snyder, but the McMillan one) and thus the learning curve in Hardy offense is steep for him.
Answer this simple question.... Are you rooting for the guy or for your take?
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Possibly. Walker on the bench is where he belongs so it's a good move by Danny
I like Collins and was big on trading for him a few seasons back. My only worry is he's going to get targeted on the defensive end during the playoffs. Aside from that, Collins is putting up great offensive numbers and rarely has a **** stat line on the offensive end. He's shot 59.7% in the month of January.