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Trae is small, ball dominant, limited as an off-ball player, and easy to trap. He lives on a difficult shot diet that's high-variance, and he's a defensive liability. There's a reason his teams haven't had a high ceiling.
 
Trae limits his team in the playoffs since he is not a two way player. Trae is steph curry light. He is shorter,, not quite as elite of a shooter, doesn't move off the ball as well, more attitude, etc. Steph could hide behind Klay, Green, Kevon, Wiggins, and others who were all above average or elite defenders. It could be argued that Trae could do the same but I wouldn't see the Warriors being a dynasty with Trae instead of Steph.

Trae would require elite defense around him.

I prefer the fit of Luka and Lauri. It just sounds good too. Lauri is the perfect pairing with an alpha like Luka. Kessler, Hendricks, and Lauri are pretty darn good defenders to put around an elite scoring threat, but Luka plays with more gravity and he is a better passer than Trae. Lauri and Luka gets you top 3 in the west for years to come.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Trae limits his team in the playoffs since he is not a two way player. Trae is steph curry light. He is shorter,, not quite as elite of a shooter, doesn't move off the ball as well, more attitude, etc. Steph could hide behind Klay, Green, Kevon, Wiggins, and others who were all above average or elite defenders. It could be argued that Trae could do the same but I wouldn't see the Warriors being a dynasty with Trae instead of Steph.

Trae would require elite defense around him.

I prefer the fit of Luka and Lauri. It just sounds good too. Lauri is the perfect pairing with an alpha like Luka. Kessler, Hendricks, and Lauri are pretty darn good defenders to put around an elite scoring threat, but Luka plays with more gravity and he is a better passer than Trae. Lauri and Luka gets you top 3 in the west for years to come.
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Wow you prefer Luka? That's crazy.
 
fishonjazz said:
Harden was an MVP level player and made the all star team 15 seasons in a row.
Trae ain't that.

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Harden played on much more talented and veteran-esk teams
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Trae is small, ball dominant, limited as an off-ball player, and easy to trap. He lives on a difficult shot diet that's high-variance, and he's a defensive liability. There's a reason his teams haven't had a high ceiling.
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His teams haven’t had high ceiling was that he hasn’t had a great team around him. It’s not because of Trae. Put him on some of those rocket teams and he’s in the top 12-15
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Harden played on much more talented and veteran-esk teams

His teams haven’t had high ceiling was that he hasn’t had a great team around him. It’s not because of Trae. Put him on some of those rocket teams and he’s in the top 12-15
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You can see the difference between Clint Capella playing with James Harden and Clint Capella playing with Trae. Trae isn't the same level of advantage creator.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Trae limits his team in the playoffs since he is not a two way player. Trae is steph curry light. He is shorter,, not quite as elite of a shooter, doesn't move off the ball as well, more attitude, etc. Steph could hide behind Klay, Green, Kevon, Wiggins, and others who were all above average or elite defenders. It could be argued that Trae could do the same but I wouldn't see the Warriors being a dynasty with Trae instead of Steph.

Trae would require elite defense around him.

I prefer the fit of Luka and Lauri. It just sounds good too. Lauri is the perfect pairing with an alpha like Luka. Kessler, Hendricks, and Lauri are pretty darn good defenders to put around an elite scoring threat, but Luka plays with more gravity and he is a better passer than Trae. Lauri and Luka gets you top 3 in the west for years to come.
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IMG_9431.jpeg
 
Trae Young is not a winning player, and you are setting yourself up to be a treadmill team if you brought him on as your best player. He is very small, plays terrible D, lots of rumors that he is a cancer in the locker room, and a very inefficient TS of 57.9% this year. Matches what he shoots most other years. Pretty easy to gameplan him out of a playoff series.

The one conference title that he did get to was a complete fluke, and should not be attributed to him being the difference.

Hell to the NO on Trae.
 
I understand the logic behind “he needs to be a difference maker that makes X difference”. I also believe it is textbook “easier said than done” mentality.

You can say it will be extremely hard to build a championship contender with Trae. I think it’s hard to disagree with that. But the other side of that is that it is going to be extremely hard to do so no matter what path you take.

There are easier players to build around. But the reason why we’re talking about Trae in the first place is that it’s semi realistic to actually get him. If you think Trae is not the right path, I think you at least have to acknowledge the extreme difficulty in acquiring X player who is easier to build around.
 
KqWIN said:
I understand the logic behind “he needs to be a difference maker that makes X difference”. I also believe it is textbook “easier said than done” mentality.

You can say it will be extremely hard to build a championship contender with Trae. I think it’s hard to disagree with that. But the other side of that is that it is going to be extremely hard to do so no matter what path you take.

There are easier players to build around. But the reason why we’re talking about Trae in the first place is that it’s semi realistic to actually get him. If you think Trae is not the right path, I think you at least have to acknowledge the extreme difficulty in acquiring X player who is easier to build around.
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Yeah... its hard to get highly talented players. Many will have flaws. Trae isn't even "available" per se. It doesn't mean we can't be a little choosy about who we acquire if we are paying a huge premium. There are also other ways to get the equivalent value Trae would provide by getting multiple guys instead of putting the eggs in one basket. I don't think anyone is really saying its easy to get top 30 talent.

I also think Trae is overrated , just like his peers do. He hasn't led a team to a 50-win pace over a season. He had a great run to the conference finals but was definitely aided by a lucky meltdown by the Sixers. He puts up numbers but not particularly efficient. He's had a year where the Hawks were #2 in offense... but most years they hover around top 10. We can get to a top 10 offense fairly easily with the amount of assets thrown into the proposed trade... hell we were there last year. His teams are consistently bottom 10 or worse on defense.

I just think we can do better with 45M in space, 2 top solid prospects, and 3 firsts... and think those iterations would have space to grow. Locking in on Trae limits us quite a bit imo.
 
I know Lauri is much different and better than the perception of him a few years ago, but imagine yourself somewhere in beginning of 2022, looking into the future and having us discuss putting all the chips on the table to pair Lauri with Trae Young.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah... its hard to get highly talented players. Many will have flaws. Trae isn't even "available" per se. It doesn't mean we can't be a little choosy about who we acquire if we are paying a huge premium. There are also other ways to get the equivalent value Trae would provide by getting multiple guys instead of putting the eggs in one basket. I don't think anyone is really saying its easy to get top 30 talent.

I also think Trae is overrated , just like his peers do. He hasn't led a team to a 50-win pace over a season. He had a great run to the conference finals but was definitely aided by a lucky meltdown by the Sixers. He puts up numbers but not particularly efficient. He's had a year where the Hawks were #2 in offense... but most years they hover around top 10. We can get to a top 10 offense fairly easily with the amount of assets thrown into the proposed trade... hell we were there last year. His teams are consistently bottom 10 or worse on defense.

I just think we can do better with 45M in space, 2 top solid prospects, and 3 firsts... and think those iterations would have space to grow. Locking in on Trae limits us quite a bit imo.
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Should amend this... he is efficient. Just not hyper efficient. When his FTR changes in the playoffs I am not sure he can be consistently efficient in that setting.
 
I’m pro acquiring Trae and it will cost a lot. However, I don’t think these are the pieces the Jazz would agree to. I’d bet the Jazz keep Key, and I don’t see them getting rid of both JC and Sexton. They will want at least one of them in a sixth man role.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah... its hard to get highly talented players. Many will have flaws. Trae isn't even "available" per se. It doesn't mean we can't be a little choosy about who we acquire if we are paying a huge premium. There are also other ways to get the equivalent value Trae would provide by getting multiple guys instead of putting the eggs in one basket. I don't think anyone is really saying its easy to get top 30 talent.

I also think Trae is overrated , just like his peers do. He hasn't led a team to a 50-win pace over a season. He had a great run to the conference finals but was definitely aided by a lucky meltdown by the Sixers. He puts up numbers but not particularly efficient. He's had a year where the Hawks were #2 in offense... but most years they hover around top 10. We can get to a top 10 offense fairly easily with the amount of assets thrown into the proposed trade... hell we were there last year. His teams are consistently bottom 10 or worse on defense.

I just think we can do better with 45M in space, 2 top solid prospects, and 3 firsts... and think those iterations would have space to grow. Locking in on Trae limits us quite a bit imo.
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It's just a lot easier to pick at Trae than "mystery player". Mystery player is great until you actually account for the difficulty in acquiring them and also consider the reality that mystery player will likely have flaws as well. Not saying Trae is the greatest option either, but every option is difficult and imperfect. To be overrated, you need to be rated in the first place. When I look at the credit Trae gets, the accolades he's been given, and the evaluation of him (in this thread in particular)...I just don't see a player who is overrated and I would actually lean towards the opinion that people are too harsh him and not giving him enough credit for the good stuff he does.

For example, a lot of the criticisms I see in this thread are so heavily team performance related. It's not necessarily bad to account for team success, but let's also remember he's reached the same peak as the Jazz franchise has had in decades, he hasn't played on great rosters, and his adjusted +/- stuff is actually pretty damn good great (especially on offense obvs). Again, not perfect, but people are hammering on him for not doing enough on offense when his 3 year offensive LA-RAPM is 7th out of all players. His single season offensive RAPM stuff is consistently amazing. RAPM isn't perfect, but it's a way to assess an individual vs the team. It's not fair to dump on him for how his team performs when the numbers strongly indicate he's been carrying that team. Like go ahead and be harsh on his defense because he deserves it, but at the same time I think you also have to give him his roses for the offensive impact he's had. If he's not elevating his team's offense enough, you can count the guys who are with like one hand. And to clear, we want those guys, but are we actually going to get them?

I actually think Zach Lavine is a better option at the high salary and for his relative acquisition cost....but it's only fair to give Trae his due.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Harden played on much more talented and veteran-esk teams
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15 straight all star seasons bro. MVP level player.

Trae ain't on the level of harden



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idiot said:
For what it's worth: Clarkson to Knicks seems to be a bigger item among Jazz fans than among Knick fans. They seem to have their attention on other targets.
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They are kind of delusional like Laker fans though. . .
 
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