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Hardy Says Keyonte Has a Chance to be a Star

Saint Cy of JFC said:
I would be pretty shocked.
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Exactly. To maximize the profits from the charade you have to be really convincing.





I don't actually thing they are pumping up the value of anyone for trade purposes. I think Sexton could be moved but I don't think that is the reason he was replaced yesterday. I think they are gathering info... so trying things. One of the options is obviously sending Sexton back to a sixth man role. If it was all about trades you start him (like they are doing with Collins) and play him more minutes so his raw stats are higher and you advertise him as a "starter". I don't think he has to be moved but will be if they get great value. I simultaneously don't think he is part of a 3-5 year plan here.
 
I haven't heard Sexton complain at all about coming off the bench, and for the past two games has been really good in that role after being really good (offensively) in his starting role. His contract is fine as a high level 6th man for the next two years, so there is no need to trade him now.

I don't like, but kind of get what the front office seems to be thinking. Sexton might be a top 50 player, but Keyonte has the potential to be a top 20 player.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
His contract is fine as a high level 6th man for the next two years, so there is no need to trade him now.
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The messaging has been the Jazz want to build a sustainable contender. The next two years dont even matter that much. I think it will take 3 years before having decent odds of getting past the first round of the playoffs.

Sexton isnt a 6th man. He's too damn good. There's no way the Jazz can re-sign him to be a 6th man. At the rate he is progressing he could be a max player on his next contract, more so if he's on a team that allows him to be higher usage than Utah does.

He's going to finish the year with close to 50/40/90 splits (he's probably too far away on the FT's unless he doesnt miss another one for the rest of the season). I find it hard to believe he wont have high trade value this off-season.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I haven't heard Sexton complain at all about coming off the bench, and for the past two games has been really good in that role after being really good (offensively) in his starting role. His contract is fine as a high level 6th man for the next two years, so there is no need to trade him now.

I don't like, but kind of get what the front office seems to be thinking. Sexton might be a top 50 player, but Keyonte has the potential to be a top 20 player.
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I have infinity less info than they do... I just haven't seen enough to jump to thinking he has top 20 upside (thats a super high bar). I think he has a chance to be better than Sexton for sure. I get that he would be an easier player to build around if he processes the game faster.

Just feels like Collin gets treated like a top 100 player regardless of performance. He has clearly taken some steps and works his *** off. As a 25 yo I would not count him out on taking another step or two.

I think at the end of next year we will have a much clearer idea on these two. So unless a monster offer came or unless Key took several steps... just hold for a year.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
The messaging has been the Jazz want to build a sustainable contender. The next two years dont even matter that much. I think it will take 3 years before having decent odds of getting past the first round of the playoffs.

Sexton isnt a 6th man. He's too damn good. There's no way the Jazz can re-sign him to be a 6th man. At the rate he is progressing he could be a max player on his next contract, more so if he's on a team that allows him to be higher usage than Utah does.

He's going to finish the year with close to 50/40/90 splits (he's probably too far away on the FT's unless he doesnt miss another one for the rest of the season). I find it hard to believe he wont have high trade value this off-season.
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Yeah, I really don't think it's even worth discussing too much since I'm pretty sure we are all kind of on the same page. If we get a great offer for Sexton that creates a more competitive team in the future, then go for it, if not, then Sexton is a really good player and we should enjoy him while he is on the team.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Yeah, I really don't think it's even worth discussing too much since I'm pretty sure we are all kind of on the same page. If we get a great offer for Sexton that creates a more competitive team in the future, then go for it, if not, then Sexton is a really good player and we should enjoy him while he is on the team.
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Yeah I just think if their primary purpose with Collin is to raise his value and they view him as a goner he'd be getting the John Collins treatment. I think just like everything the last couple years... they will be opportunistic and if the opportunities aren't awesome... they will be patient.
 
I can tell you all for certain that the notion of "raising a guy's trade value" by playing him more, boosting stats, etc. is completely overblown.

NBA scouts/FOs are extremely sophisticated when evaluating players in the trade market. Sexton starting and scoring ~25 ppg on ~35 minutes, vs. coming off the bench and averaging ~22 ppg on ~30 minutes - on similar efficiency - matters zero with respect to his trade value.

And BTW, I'll point out his MPG in March (33.3) are the highest in any month of the season thus far by a significant margin.

I love Sexton and would LOVE him as a 6th man for the long-term. But if the Jazz think Key could be the guy long-term, they're doing the right thing starting him now and giving him the chance to really come into his own.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They are keeping their options wide open... which leads me to ponder if they will consider going full tank mode if they got a huge offer for Lauri. I like 90% believe they want to be "good sooner than later" but I also think I don't trust much of the message that comes out of the FO with that stuff.

I am not even saying that is the wrong move per se... I just think they are really trying to keep all options open.
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I think we will likely have a Lauri + rookies team until we are able to make a big trade, but that trade may not come. There's no rule that you have compete and peak when Lauri is in his peak, but it is kind of a shame to use Lauri's prime to develop rookies. Lauri's existence on this team pretty much ensures we will not have a very high draft pick, so you're really relying on a trade or one of these middle of the draft guys to hit.

As far as Sexton, I just don't think the FO cares much about him. I also think that they aren't too concerned about his trade value which is why they keep benching him. So while I think Saint is correct that they don't believe Sexton is a starter or part of the future, if they were trying to build up his value they would not be trying to bench him at every moment especially when he's played extremely well and consistent. They are likely fine stuffing him into the bench role until he becomes unhappy because that is what they think of him as a player. I actually don't think teams try to manipulate trade value nearly as much as fans seem to think.

If we get a trade offer that feels worth it, I think we'll definitely take it, but at this point we're doing the Tony Jones conversation so it's really not worth discussing.
 
KqWIN said:
I think we will likely have a Lauri + rookies team until we are able to make a big trade, but that trade may not come. There's no rule that you have compete and peak when Lauri is in his peak, but it is kind of a shame to use Lauri's prime to develop rookies. Lauri's existence on this team pretty much ensures we will not have a very high draft pick, so you're really relying on a trade or one of these middle of the draft guys to hit.

As far as Sexton, I just don't think the FO cares much about him. I also think that they aren't too concerned about his trade value which is why they keep benching him. So while I think Saint is correct that they don't believe Sexton is a starter or part of the future, if they were trying to build up his value they would not be trying to bench him at every moment especially when he's played extremely well and consistent. They are likely fine stuffing him into the bench role until he becomes unhappy because that is what they think of him as a player. I actually don't think teams try to manipulate trade value nearly as much as fans seem to think.

If we get a trade offer that feels worth it, I think we'll definitely take it, but at this point we're doing the Tony Jones conversation so it's really not worth discussing.
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Yeah I just don’t think not competing in Lauri’s window is bad for us and him. It doesn’t maximize the asset and definitely keeps us in the 7-10 draft range the next 3 years unless Key develops quickly like SGA/Book/Don type leaps. We do have some low hanging fruit to improve on if they want to stop the John Collins as a starting center thing and if we change some minutes distributions.

By trade deadline next year we make a more defined decision unless it’s already made for us. I think the next two drafts likely have some real talent if we want to tank and the West is so effing deep.

IDK trying to be patient but this blowing in the wind is kinda old. Hoping that isn’t the MO the next 2-3 years cuz that’s a pretty ****** “plan”.
 
I haven't digested all the comments here, but it seems like a lot of people see a problem in keeping both Collin and Key long-term. I don't get it.

I'm guessing the reasons are about defense, but I need to be enlightened.
 
NAOS_pt2 said:
I haven't digested all the comments here, but it seems like a lot of people see a problem in keeping both Collin and Key long-term. I don't get it.

I'm guessing the reasons are about defense, but I need to be enlightened.
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Yes, the problem is on defense. The issue was highlighted when Hardy picked Dunn to start against MIN to have someone who could defend Ant.
 
NAOS_pt2 said:
I haven't digested all the comments here, but it seems like a lot of people see a problem in keeping both Collin and Key long-term. I don't get it.

I'm guessing the reasons are about defense, but I need to be enlightened.
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You can’t have multiple good players. IDK



The defensive fit is bad but the offense seems just fine to me. My position is the Jazz seem to think Key will be much better than Collin… I’m not so sure. Good news is we don’t need to pick yet… though it does seem the org has made their choice…. If they had to anyway. I think in the medium term it’s just great. If an amazing offer comes for one of them I’m not opposed to jumping on it.
 
His literally been the only bright spot of this horrible nearly unwatchable season.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah I just don’t think not competing in Lauri’s window is bad for us and him. It doesn’t maximize the asset and definitely keeps us in the 7-10 draft range the next 3 years unless Key develops quickly like SGA/Book/Don type leaps. We do have some low hanging fruit to improve on if they want to stop the John Collins as a starting center thing and if we change some minutes distributions.

By trade deadline next year we make a more defined decision unless it’s already made for us. I think the next two drafts likely have some real talent if we want to tank and the West is so effing deep.

IDK trying to be patient but this blowing in the wind is kinda old. Hoping that isn’t the MO the next 2-3 years cuz that’s a pretty ****** “plan”.
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The decission is coming this offseason and I think it comes down to what happens in the playoffs, especially in the West. There are too many "contenders" atm, and one or more of the hopefuls are gonna end up in a situation where they need to face reality and either reboot or retool. If someone reboots, we are gonna vulture around the carcass. If no one reboots, we are most likely gonna provide tools and milk the f**k out of the situation.

There is no reality where we add 3 rookies and (pseudo-)compete next year. We have gaps (like a total lack of NBA level 2 way wings) that rookies cannot address properly, and I doubt that we would add some "mid tier vets" to truely improve our roster and create roadblocks for the young guys minutes.

So I predict a splash trade one way or the other will happen.
 
Nate505 said:
His literally been the only bright spot of this horrible nearly unwatchable season.
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Sexton has been a bright spot as well. Playing at an all star level while also being very fun to watch. Best season of his career.

I have enjoyed what I have seen from Hendricks

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
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Another thing to consider is that what if they really like Key, but dont see him becoming the true #1? So if Key and Lauri are both #2 caliber options, and we lack the #1 then we are still in the same loophole and likely willing to use either of them to create an appealing package for the "MVP caliber guy".

So the outcome of this offseason could also very well be to bank on Key as your #2, target Flagg/Bailey/Boozer as your best chance to get a true #1 with a massive pile of assets along with 3 rookies, 2 other promising sophomores and whatever we would get back for Sexton and Lauri. On the other hand, its also possible that if some franchize decides to blow it up we can use Keyonte as the "Key" piece to facilitate a trade and go into "win now" immediately. I see the latter as a less likely option, because our supporting personnel is more geared towards draft than compete.

Also lets not forget what DA did the last time we were looking at a really good draft. Isnt it so that both 2025 and 2026 are looking like strong classes?
 
HermanG said:
The decission is coming this offseason and I think it comes down to what happens in the playoffs, especially in the West. There are too many "contenders" atm, and one or more of the hopefuls are gonna end up in a situation where they need to face reality and either reboot or retool. If someone reboots, we are gonna vulture around the carcass. If no one reboots, we are most likely gonna provide tools and milk the f**k out of the situation.

There is no reality where we add 3 rookies and (pseudo-)compete next year. We have gaps (like a total lack of NBA level 2 way wings) that rookies cannot address properly, and I doubt that we would add some "mid tier vets" to truely improve our roster and create roadblocks for the young guys minutes.

So I predict a splash trade one way or the other will happen.
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We got going on this topic on the pod. I didn’t get all the way into everything but there are a couple scenarios in the lottery where I could see us moving Lauri. They’ve left all doors open for a reason. I don’t think that path is the preferred or even likely path.

I don’t personally love the potential star options that I believe will be in the market. IDK I don’t see an obvious path.
 
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