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Lauri's Defense

SoberasHotRod

SoberasHotRod

Well-Known Member
Lauri's defense was noticeably better last year in my opinion. Here are some numbers I just looked up:

Defensive fg% difference - Last Year -2.8% This Year 0.9%
Defensive Rating - Last Year 116 This Year 120
On / Off Defensive Rtg - Last year -3.6 This year -0.6

He's never been known as a great defender, but last year, I thought he was pretty good. I think it's possible he's working harder on offense and so he's not able to do as much on defense. It's also possible that he's not on the floor with Kessler as much, and has been spending more time with Collins. I also wonder if this year has been such a throw away year that he just hasn't cared as much on that end.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Lauri's defense was noticeably better last year in my opinion. Here are some numbers I just looked up:

Defensive fg% difference - Last Year -2.8% This Year 0.9%
Defensive Rating - Last Year 116 This Year 120
On / Off Defensive Rtg - Last year -3.6 This year -0.6

He's never been known as a great defender, but last year, I thought he was pretty good. I think it's possible he's working harder on offense and so he's not able to do as much on defense. It's also possible that he's not on the floor with Kessler as much, and has been spending more time with Collins. I also wonder if this year has been such a throw away year that he just hasn't cared as much on that end.
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We emphasize positional length and that is our new philosophy… except at the most important position on the floor.

I’m disappointed in a few things. Lauri taking a step back on defense this year is one but it’s understandable. I thought the Tim protection with Lauri and Walker together was going to be a staple. I think it ends up getting on track next year… at least better than 29th or whatever. I’m not reading too much into it but I’m guessing he may not be as good as he showed the prior year.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Lauri's defense was noticeably better last year in my opinion. Here are some numbers I just looked up:

Defensive fg% difference - Last Year -2.8% This Year 0.9%
Defensive Rating - Last Year 116 This Year 120
On / Off Defensive Rtg - Last year -3.6 This year -0.6

He's never been known as a great defender, but last year, I thought he was pretty good. I think it's possible he's working harder on offense and so he's not able to do as much on defense. It's also possible that he's not on the floor with Kessler as much, and has been spending more time with Collins. I also wonder if this year has been such a throw away year that he just hasn't cared as much on that end.
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I just think this is because he went from being a role player to a star of the team. He might have just been running on a natural adrenaline All year and he didn’t have to as hard to score. Teams this year had to adjust to him. Next year, Lauri needs to adjust and hopefully he can find a happy medium from the year before and this year.
 
I don’t think he’s gotten noticeably worse. His on/off stuff could easily be attributed to playing with Collins vs Kessler (fwiw his adjusted +/- stuff is fairly good this year iirc). As far as the opponent fg%….I don’t find there to be much utility to those numbers and I’m pretty sure he had some unrealistically good numbers last year. Probably just normal variation on a number with a bunch of confounding variables to begin with. There are a variety of metrics that point to some kind of drop off. I tend to think he wasn’t that amazing as a defender to begin with.

I think Lauri lacks an identity has a defender. He’s mediocre/leaves something to be desired across different defensive roles. Whether that be as a primary wing defender, second big/help defender, or primary defensive big. He’s not bad at any of this, but not good either imo. OTOH, this versatility could be seen as a positive. I think around better defenders and a better defensive system (Hardy still has to prove himself), he’d be seen as more of an asset on defense….but surrounded by poor defenders and questionable structure I think he falls short.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Lauri's defense was noticeably better last year in my opinion. Here are some numbers I just looked up:

Defensive fg% difference - Last Year -2.8% This Year 0.9%
Defensive Rating - Last Year 116 This Year 120
On / Off Defensive Rtg - Last year -3.6 This year -0.6

He's never been known as a great defender, but last year, I thought he was pretty good. I think it's possible he's working harder on offense and so he's not able to do as much on defense. It's also possible that he's not on the floor with Kessler as much, and has been spending more time with Collins. I also wonder if this year has been such a throw away year that he just hasn't cared as much on that end.
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I think all the reasons you listed are the reason.

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If Lauri and Keyonte are the cornerstones, then the other defenders need to be long and versatile. That goes from TRUE to ****ING TRUE if Sexton is on the floor.

I would hope that Lauri and Keyonte are average at defense. I won't have any expectations that they are measurably much better than that.

I have questions about Kessler, fwiw. He doesn't fit the versatility quotient (but I haven't been able to watch very closely this year, so dunno).
 
KqWIN said:
I don’t think he’s gotten noticeably worse. His on/off stuff could easily be attributed to playing with Collins vs Kessler (fwiw his adjusted +/- stuff is fairly good this year iirc). As far as the opponent fg%….I don’t find there to be much utility to those numbers and I’m pretty sure he had some unrealistically good numbers last year. Probably just normal variation on a number with a bunch of confounding variables to begin with. There are a variety of metrics that point to some kind of drop off. I tend to think he wasn’t that amazing as a defender to begin with.

I think Lauri lacks an identity has a defender. He’s mediocre/leaves something to be desired across different defensive roles. Whether that be as a primary wing defender, second big/help defender, or primary defensive big. He’s not bad at any of this, but not good either imo. OTOH, this versatility could be seen as a positive. I think around better defenders and a better defensive system (Hardy still has to prove himself), he’d be seen as more of an asset on defense….but surrounded by poor defenders and questionable structure I think he falls short.
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To me it's been noticeable. He looked really disruptive last year and this year he has looked a step slow almost. I kind of agree with what you are saying as far as defensive identity, but I think last year he was a very good rim protector.
 
NAOS_pt2 said:
If Lauri and Keyonte are the cornerstones, then the other defenders need to be long and versatile. That goes from TRUE to ****ING TRUE if Sexton is on the floor.

I would hope that Lauri and Keyonte are average at defense. I won't have any expectations that they are measurably much better than that.

I have questions about Kessler, fwiw. He doesn't fit the versatility quotient (but I haven't been able to watch very closely this year, so dunno).
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I think Lauri has been and can be at least average, so I'm not worried about that too much. He would obviously be a lot more valuable if he was more than that.

Keyonte has a long ways to go to be average, but he's probably fine at least in the regular season if you can stick him on the other team's lowest usage guy.

Hendricks definitely fits the bill of a long and versatile defender for what we have seen so far. Kessler is long, but not versatile.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I think Lauri has been and can be at least average, so I'm not worried about that too much. He would obviously be a lot more valuable if he was more than that.

Keyonte has a long ways to go to be average, but he's probably fine at least in the regular season if you can stick him on the other team's lowest usage guy.

Hendricks definitely fits the bill of a long and versatile defender for what we have seen so far. Kessler is long, but not versatile.
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Hendricks definitely looks the part. Especially on defense.
He just looks fast, long, and athletic. He really catches the eye out on the court. At least to me anyway
I very excited to watch him grow.


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SoberasHotRod said:
To me it's been noticeable. He looked really disruptive last year and this year he has looked a step slow almost. I kind of agree with what you are saying as far as defensive identity, but I think last year he was a very good rim protector.
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I guess I just didn't think he was as good as people made him out to be last year. I know there was some numbers that might have suggested that he was a really good rim protector, but I didn't buy it and it doesn't surprise me that those same numbers have fluctuated. I don't read much into those numbers to begin with.

IMO, if he looks worse it's likely because he's playing with worse players this time around which has made the whole thing go from bad to awful. If Lauri was playing with better players/better structure, I think he would look a lot better....but he's always been mediocre/slightly below average to me.
 
KqWIN said:
I guess I just didn't think he was as good as people made him out to be last year. I know there was some numbers that might have suggested that he was a really good rim protector, but I didn't buy it and it doesn't surprise me that those same numbers have fluctuated. I don't read much into those numbers to begin with.

IMO, if he looks worse it's likely because he's playing with worse players this time around which has made the whole thing go from bad to awful. If Lauri was playing with better players/better structure, I think he would look a lot better....but he's always been mediocre/slightly below average to me.
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It kind of feels like you are just going to see whatever you want to see.

We were bad defensively last year and we're bad this year. Lauri really stood out on a bad defensive team last year, and this year he hasn't.

Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see as well, but last year I was expecting Lauri to be a bad defender and he was really good. This year I expected more of the same and he has been disappointing. I actually enjoy watching defense as much or more than offense, so I'm someone who really pays attention on that end. When my eye test tells me something and then I can confirm that with data, I tend to believe it.
 
It seems like his interior D is similar to last year. At his length he could be better. Like most of the roster, I assume his 3 pt defense is down, a lot of that attributable to the zone this year.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
It kind of feels like you are just going to see whatever you want to see.

We were bad defensively last year and we're bad this year. Lauri really stood out on a bad defensive team last year, and this year he hasn't.

Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see as well, but last year I was expecting Lauri to be a bad defender and he was really good. This year I expected more of the same and he has been disappointing. I actually enjoy watching defense as much or more than offense, so I'm someone who really pays attention on that end. When my eye test tells me something and then I can confirm that with data, I tend to believe it.
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Yeah I guess what we disagree on is last year. I didn't really think he was a standout. He was fine, and maybe he's less fine this year, but I don't think his personal dropoff has been too much. I may have also been less impressed because I actually think he made his big improvement his year in CLE and wasn't expecting him to be as bad as his rep...so to your point about expectations that may be what's causing a difference on opinion.

IMO, the only defensive standout last season was Kessler. He is such a big defensive centerpiece and makes everything look better. His drop off is the significant one.
 
KqWIN said:
Yeah I guess what we disagree on is last year. I didn't really think he was a standout. He was fine, and maybe he's less fine this year, but I don't think his personal dropoff has been too much. I may have also been less impressed because I actually think he made his big improvement his year in CLE and wasn't expecting him to be as bad as his rep...so to your point about expectations that may be what's causing a difference on opinion.

IMO, the only defensive standout last season was Kessler. He is such a big defensive centerpiece and makes everything look better. His drop off is the significant one.
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That's fair. I didn't really follow Lauri in Cleveland and his reputation was that he was a bad defender, so I was pleasantly surprised.
 
fishonjazz said:
Hendricks definitely looks the part. Especially on defense.
He just looks fast, long, and athletic. He really catches the eye out on the court. At least to me anyway
I very excited to watch him grow.


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This post aged well

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SoberasHotRod said:
It kind of feels like you are just going to see whatever you want to see.

We were bad defensively last year and we're bad this year. Lauri really stood out on a bad defensive team last year, and this year he hasn't.

Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see as well, but last year I was expecting Lauri to be a bad defender and he was really good. This year I expected more of the same and he has been disappointing. I actually enjoy watching defense as much or more than offense, so I'm someone who really pays attention on that end. When my eye test tells me something and then I can confirm that with data, I tend to believe it.
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100% agreed. Last year and also in Cleveland, Lauri was a tough matchup against those wings who weren't quick enough to exploit his okayish lateral quickness. When he didn't get blown by, he did a decent job to contest jump shots.

Of course, the job gets easier when he shares the floor with Kessler or Mobley and Allen, but this year Lauri has been a traffic cone against any wings who can take two dribbles.
 
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Defense is a team effort so it's hard for me to look only individual data on it. I take the example of KAT who have been a poor defender for many years and then suddenly improve a lot and got top individual data this year. Probably because playing with Ant, Rudy, Mac Daniels and Mike who are good in defense help him a lot.
 
Lauri is decent and sometimes good on defensive assignments, when the team actually plays as a team and the roster compliments each other. Jazz is further from that after the trades.

He also spent few months of his off-season on playing private Markkanen role in Finnish Military service. Told y'all he ain't probably be physically as dominant bc of that. Next season, we have to see... I suspect another all-star season.
 
FrenchJazzFa said:
Defense is a team effort so it's hard for me to look only individual data on it. I take the example of KAT who have been a poor defender for many years and then suddenly improve a lot and got top individual data this year. Probably because playing with Ant, Rudy, Mac Daniels and Mike who are good in defense help him a lot.
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Good points, and KAT seems to be a good example of this. I looked at some of his individual defensive metrics and they have stayed pretty consistent, but by being with bad vs good defensive players the perception of his defense has changed.

I don't think it's impossible to measure defensive impact, just very difficult. I still trust the eye test in combination with consistency across various defensive metrics.
 
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