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Game Thread Mar 25, 2024 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Mavericks

Added to Calendar: 03-25-24

KqWIN said:
It might be time to revisit his trade market. His raw numbers are better than they were last year, he has one less year on his deal, but his advanced metrics are also in the tank. I'm not sure there is a taker like UTA was last summer, but he has rehabbed some value and is in a similarish place imo.
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We bought a house like 9-10 years ago… we sold it 5 years ago… I **** you not it has changed hands 4 times in 5 years. John Collins is that house (I hope). It’s always on the market.
 
I highly doubt we move John Collins this summer without attaching stuff to him. Depending on what we end up doing I think he swaps roles with Walker next year and comes off the bench. There’s a chance you find a sucker but we will have effective killed two FA money years by taking on Collins “for free”.
 
The are the 6 teams with the most projected cap space....any takers there? DET maybe lol. Spurs, probably not but probably the second most realist. One team not listed....the Hornets (probably the best fit).

1. Pistons: $61.3M
2. 76ers: $55.3M
3. Jazz: $38.0M
4. Thunder: $35.3M
5. Magic: $25.6M
6. Spurs: $25.4M


H/T Keith Smith

Does anyone remember if there were any other possible John Collins trade destinations, or just any other potentials at all? I guess LAC potentially if they want to nuclear on their salary and use a human trade exception.

I don't see it happening. I guess we'll see another year of Collins being the starter and Walker is just a backup.
 
KqWIN said:
The are the 6 teams with the most projected cap space....any takers there? DET maybe lol. Spurs, probably not but probably the second most realist. One team not listed....the Hornets (probably the best fit).

1. Pistons: $61.3M
2. 76ers: $55.3M
3. Jazz: $38.0M
4. Thunder: $35.3M
5. Magic: $25.6M
6. Spurs: $25.4M


H/T Keith Smith

Does anyone remember if there were any other possible John Collins trade destinations, or just any other potentials at all? I guess LAC potentially if they want to nuclear on their salary and use a human trade exception.

I don't see it happening. I guess we'll see another year of Collins being the starter and Walker is just a backup.
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it's a shame JC is paid too much He'd be terrific as a backup big
 
I guess it's more important that the Jazz move on from Clarkson. Moving him in a straight salary dump would ensure max cap space for the next two summers (or close to it). Despite his horrible play, I'm hopeful we could find a taker or dump him at minimal cost. I guess this only matters if we find a use for our caps space though. Is there even a free agent we want/can get?
 
Shad said:
Keyonte is looking really bad right now, and when I say now, I mean the last 10 games at the least
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I'm beginning to think Keyonte might be Jordan Clarkson 2.0. A guy who can get scorching hot and dominate the offensive end on a good day but who gets into slumps when he becomes borderline unplayable. Same kind of emotional charracter and both also inconsistent on their effort on defense.

To be fair, its hard to call that in a players rookie year and we dont know how he progresses. But his scouting reports from HS and College both highlight the streaky nature of his game. If Key becomes a better version of Clarkson, thats not a bad player to have though.
 
HermanG said:
I'm beginning to think Keyonte might be Jordan Clarkson 2.0. A guy who can get scorching hot and dominate the offensive end on a good day but who gets into slumps when he becomes borderline unplayable. Same kind of emotional charracter and both also inconsistent on their effort on defense.

To be fair, its hard to call that in a players rookie year and we dont know how he progresses. But his scouting reports from HS and College both highlight the streaky nature of his game. If Key becomes a better version of Clarkson, thats not a bad player to have though.
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Keyonte is quite clearly a floor general, something you would never confuse Jordan Clarkson with.
 
framer said:
Keyonte is quite clearly a floor general, something you would never confuse Jordan Clarkson with.
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He definitely has better passing chops than Clarkson, but I wouldnt call him a floor general... at least not the way he has been playing recently. Both Sexton and Clarkson set up others more frequently and consistently than Keyonte.

He is good at controlling pace and does keep his eyes up, and doesnt just dribble inside unless he means it, which are all big differences between him and Clarkson.
 
KqWIN said:
The are the 6 teams with the most projected cap space....any takers there? DET maybe lol. Spurs, probably not but probably the second most realist. One team not listed....the Hornets (probably the best fit).

1. Pistons: $61.3M
2. 76ers: $55.3M
3. Jazz: $38.0M
4. Thunder: $35.3M
5. Magic: $25.6M
6. Spurs: $25.4M


H/T Keith Smith

Does anyone remember if there were any other possible John Collins trade destinations, or just any other potentials at all? I guess LAC potentially if they want to nuclear on their salary and use a human trade exception.

I don't see it happening. I guess we'll see another year of Collins being the starter and Walker is just a backup.
Click to expand...
With John a move will happen under a couple/few scenarios:

- Maybe a sign and trade option where a team without much or any space wants him plus something rather than watching a guy leave for nothing.
- A team with dead salary Nets/Bulls moves an expiring for him. FO admits defeat but gets out from the last year. Bulls particularly could have interest if Williams gets too pricey as they could sell themselves on Collins Vuc being a fit. They also love being mid so this seems like it works. Doubt the Jazz admit defeat though.
- We apple juice Collins. Just like a juice company you add in some fancy fruits or veggies mix it with a lot of cheap apple juice and sell it as some healthy elixir. So you add a couple picks to Collins for a starter level player or star... Collins drags the value down but as a FO you can sell it as being part of the plan even though you likely had to add another pick or something to make the value work.
- Find a sucker. Pistons look like the only sucker that might end up having no one to give their space to... so they bite to have a vet. Its a bad fit but Pistons love bad fits.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It’s not at all but go on ahead.
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fishonjazz said:
Ya that was a weird post.
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Lauri playing might lift a 50/50 game to 57/43. And he would increase a 30/70 game by the exact same amount to 37/63. The same expected win probability added in both cases.

You migh feel that swinging a 50/50 game is more meaningful, but for the end result it is not.

If you disagree, I strongly, strongly encourage you to make millions with that info. Because then Vegas and all the gambling odds are wrong pretty much every night in the NBA and you can easily make millions quickly.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
With John a move will happen under a couple/few scenarios:

- Maybe a sign and trade option where a team without much or any space wants him plus something rather than watching a guy leave for nothing.
- A team with dead salary Nets/Bulls moves an expiring for him. FO admits defeat but gets out from the last year. Bulls particularly could have interest if Williams gets too pricey as they could sell themselves on Collins Vuc being a fit. They also love being mid so this seems like it works. Doubt the Jazz admit defeat though.
- We apple juice Collins. Just like a juice company you add in some fancy fruits or veggies mix it with a lot of cheap apple juice and sell it as some healthy elixir. So you add a couple picks to Collins for a starter level player or star... Collins drags the value down but as a FO you can sell it as being part of the plan even though you likely had to add another pick or something to make the value work.
- Find a sucker. Pistons look like the only sucker that might end up having no one to give their space to... so they bite to have a vet. Its a bad fit but Pistons love bad fits.
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There would probably be interest in him as an injury replacement. You lose a big to a season ending injury at the start of next year, Collins starts to look real attractive.

I mean players are being given contacts as living salary exceptions. Collins is that plus he is a pretty good offensive piece. This isn't like the old NBA where you can carry massive cap space from year to year. You are required to spend a lot more as a percentage than in past years
 
Dunn, Luka, THT and Kira Lewis all will be free agents next season. Add Knox's and OPJ's salaries that's a hefty amount of cash to spend. I wonder if Dunn's suspension may have soured the Jazz on him.
 
Tanktastic said:
Lauri playing might lift a 50/50 game to 57/43. And he would increase a 30/70 game by the exact same amount to 37/63. The same expected win probability added in both cases.

You migh feel that swinging a 50/50 game is more meaningful, but for the end result it is not.

If you disagree, I strongly, strongly encourage you to make millions with that info. Because then Vegas and all the gambling odds are wrong pretty much every night in the NBA and you can easily make millions quickly.
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If I am betting straight wins and losses, which is all I care about with the tanking approach, and I am trying to find a result that produces 2 losses and I have to play Lauri in one... then I will play him against the team that is likely a heavy favorite no matter what and sit him against the team that is likely a win if he plays. I understand what you are getting at with the 7% change in both games but I think last night we were clear underdogs no matter who plays and against SA if we sit Lauri and JC we go from a basically guaranteed win to a 50/50 type game.

So lets say with Lauri last night we are a 10 point underdog but without him we are a 15 point underdog. The most likely result is a loss... especially if Will Hardy is managing things a bit. Lets say with SA we are 10 point favorites with Lauri and 5 point favorites without him. Again another close result that can move either way with some variance and planning. Is 5 points still just 5 points in that scenario where I am trying to manifest 2 losses.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If I am betting straight wins and losses, which is all I care about with the tanking approach, and I am trying to find a result that produces 2 losses and I have to play Lauri in one... then I will play him against the team that is likely a heavy favorite no matter what and sit him against the team that is likely a win if he plays. I understand what you are getting at with the 7% change in both games but I think last night we were clear underdogs no matter who plays and against SA if we sit Lauri and JC we go from a basically guaranteed win to a 50/50 type game.

So lets say with Lauri last night we are a 10 point underdog but without him we are a 15 point underdog. The most likely result is a loss... especially if Will Hardy is managing things a bit. Lets say with SA we are 10 point favorites with Lauri and 5 point favorites without him. Again another close result that can move either way with some variance and planning. Is 5 points still just 5 points in that scenario where I am trying to manifest 2 losses.
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Wemby didnt play last game. He has an ankle injury. He will likely not play tomorrow either. The Jazz are probably going to win tomorrow no matter who does or does not play.
 
Also the Spurs have their own tanking to do. They are barely below the Hornets in total wins and with the Wizards recent win streak, there's also a chance they can get below the Wizards.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Wemby didnt play last game. He has an ankle injury. He will likely not play tomorrow either. The Jazz are probably going to win tomorrow no matter who does or does not play.
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Yeah... I mean SA is not able to beat anybody without Wemby... except for last night... against the Suns.

Jazz are likely to win tomorrow... but if Lauri and Wemby both miss its closer to a toss up and can be managed by one side or the other. Either way our best chance at coming out with two losses is to play Lauri yesterday and sit him tomorrow.

Without Lauri we have been really bad recently. Maybe Key wakes up but if Tre Jones is playing he can cause some issues.
 
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