2014 NBA Playoffs: Conference Finals

[Fabtrey]

nvm. Crack is your problem.

if karl was some dude you never root for somebody you never watched you would say that's a huge difference. i mean the difference is so glaring that you probably would've thought karl was inefficient chucker compared to dude who shot .56% for a career.

we all know in the playoffs, karl's stat went down a little from efficiency stand point. mchale's .561% career fg% is something we don't see often. Shaq's career playoff fg% is .563%!! just think about it.

why mchale was so efficient? because he lived down low, had that great soft touch around the rim, and just knew how to put the ball in the basket.

 

[carolinajazz]

.....only the one who really played the game of basketball would understand how truly great mchale was down low. it's a textbook.....enough to make him one of the top post player ever. karl would be lower end of 90.

I played the game and watch a ton of it, mostly Pro. I appreciated McHale's skills in the post....he just wasn't as good as Malone....IN THE POST! Yes, McHale was one of the top post players ever.....but not better than Malone!

....ask anybody on this planet who was bette i know we are all jazz homers, but come on man. karl was better at everything.....than webber.....

......including passing!

......webber's behind the back pass was a thing of beauty and his pass was fancier. dude was a born passer. one of the downfall of his greatness because he can be too pass happy.

....behind the back passing/passers are NOT good passers! Commit too many turnovers, cost too many points....trying to be "fancy"! Malone was fundamentally sound! Rarely made "fancy" passes.....was more interested in scoring and winning than ESPN highlight films!

.....and i would say his peak value is actually pretty damn close to Karl's.

....both players in there prime....NOBODY would pick McHale over Malone....not even Larry Bird!

....and those are the facts, and I stand by them!

 

[carolinajazz]

we all know in the playoffs, karl's stat went down a little from efficiency stand point. mchale's .561% career fg% is something we don't see often. Shaq's career playoff fg% is .563%!! just think about it.

....Karl's shooting percentage went down a tad bit in the playoffs because he drew more double teams and had fewer options out of the post than McHale! McHale was surrounded by a better starting 5 than the Malone Jazz, true or false? Heck, put Malone on those Celtic teams.....and his shooting percentage would have been over 70%!

 

[Fabtrey]

....Karl's shooting percentage went down a tad bit in the playoffs because he drew more double teams and had fewer options out of the post than McHale! McHale was surrounded by a better starting 5 than the Malone Jazz, true or false? Heck, put Malone on those Celtic teams.....and his shooting percentage would have been over 70%!

all of your answers to my questions don't do anything for me. it just seems like you have a blind faith. karl made more turnovers than any of PFs that i've mentioned. Mchale was no doubt the best PF in the mid 80's. karl & charles took over after mchale was injured, but mchale was considered #1. there was no debate. obviously charles & karl passed him with their athleticism and overall impact of the game. Webber not only had more tools in his passing, but he also averaged more assists. so you are just blinded by homerism. we all love john and karl. but they aren't immortals. it's like arguing with my buddy back in the days when he really thought Karl was better than MJ. he really believed that too.

shaq was double triple teamed too. always shot high % because shaq lived down low. dwight howard gets double triple team, but he always shoots high % because he doesn't shoot. he doesn't even know how to shoot. it's all dunks and jump hooks.

and take 4 worst season by both karl and mchale, the difference is the same. mchale was that efficient. karl never was a great efficient scorer. charles barkley always had much better fg% than karl. but i have karl over charles in PF ranking because karl did more and was a better overall package. but efficiency wasn't karl's forte.


mchale was efficient because he lived down low. and he could jump hook you to death. he wasn't physically imposing, so he had to be so crafty. he had to earn his position, not bulldoze his way to get deep down low. dude constantly fight for the position and had to play smart as hell to achieve that. that godly footwork is a result of him being not built like karl. and you couldn't single cover mchale. that's a suicide. helped d had to come from all side to get the ball out of him. but once mchale got the ball it was pretty much over.

mchale's prime was cut short due to injury. he wasn't the same after the broken foot injury. but he still shot 55% in the regular season for following 4 years. had he stayed healthy, he would've shot 60% few more times.


this would be my ranking for the best low post PF that i've seen. not the career. but their peak/prime. guys like vin baker was awesome, but he was good for like 3 years. coleman too.


1. mchale
2. charles
3. duncan
4. karl
5. zebo
6. webber
7. kg
8. big al
9. larry johnson
10. vin baker/derrick coleman


not the best scoring(karl would be #1), but in the low post.

 

[Fabtrey]

....Karl's shooting percentage went down a tad bit in the playoffs because he drew more double teams and had fewer options out of the post than McHale! McHale was surrounded by a better starting 5 than the Malone Jazz, true or false? Heck, put Malone on those Celtic teams.....and his shooting percentage would have been over 70%!

you are silly. 70%? baseless assumption blinded by a homerism - just read your post. make every damn jazz fans look bad.

karl shot .500% or over just 4 times in his career. mchale did that every year except 1 year where he played against bad boy pistons and got bounced in the first round!

 

[fishonjazz]

Your turn carolinajazz..... dont take that from fatbrey.

 

[carolinajazz]

Your turn carolinajazz..... dont take that from fatbrey.

...ok, looking back on history....and what was accomplished by each player mentioned, if you could pick a power forward that was going to produce both low post and otherwise, would it have been: 1) McHale 2) Barkley 3) Webber 4) Malone? (Not going to count Duncan because everybody in town knows he's really a Center and not a power forward!) The overwhelming choice by NBA coaches, players and fans with basketball brains would be............Karl Malone, hands down!!! Now, if forced to include Duncan, then he'd certainly get a lot more votes than McHale, Barkley or Webber! But even Duncan, with his illustrious career....will NEVER catch Karl Malone in all power forward categories: Points, rebounds, free throws attempted, free throws made! Malone MADE more free throws than Duncan has attempted! And Malone has Duncan by 1,000 rebounds.....and 10,000 points! I'm through proving this point! Only a fool argues.....when he knows he's right!

 

[Fabtrey]

i told you to look up the word 'longevity'. apparently you didn't.

i've already said karl is the overall 2nd best PF behind duncan. you can call duncan a center all you want, but at the end of the day he won the mvp as a PF and won 3 rings as a PF. him being able to play center is a testament to TD's greatness.

and out of these 4 -
1) McHale 2) Barkley 3) Webber 4) Malone
coaches would flip a coin between barkley and malone.

here is my take

Pure natural athleticism
1. webber
2. charles/karl
4. mchale

best ideal size
1. webber
2. karl
3. mchale
4. charles

overall offense
1. charles
2. karl
3. mchale
4. webber

rebounding
1. charles
2. karl
3. webber
4. mchale


passing
1. webber
2. charles
3. karl
4. mchale

low post scoring
1. mchale
2. charles
3. karl
4. webber

best defense
1. karl/mchale
2. webber
3. charles

intangibles
1. karl/mchale
3. charles
4. webber

leadership
1. karl/mchale
3. charles
4. webber



anyway, i consider barkley and malone pretty much equal. both were 2 best PFs in the best era.

for pure overall offense, i would actually take charles over karl. charles could not be stopped on offense. but he was lazy on D and didn't impact the game on both ends. charles was a better attacker, better finisher, and was more efficient. charles also was a better rebounder than karl. and remember charles was lazy and played out of shape almost entire career. dude was 6ft 5 even. barkley's natural talent is probably top 5 all time. so if charles played decently on D, i would've had charles ahead of Karl. only thing that karl would've had on charles would be 'longevity', a foreign word you refuse to look up in the dictionary. but i value the defense as much as offense, so karl gets my nod.

but the best low post player? kevin mchale all day everyday. he got the moves, rings, and stats. all facts. if i'm pimping a guy who avg 10pts with no hardware then i'm the idiot. but not only many consider mchale the greatest low post PF ever, but he actually backs it up with stats. and i've watched him live with my own two eyes. whenever celtics were on TV it was a must see TV in my household.

bottom line mchale went up against the best, and always produced against the best. did he avg near 30pts like karl did? no. you can't avg 30 when you have Bird and that loaded celtics. but whenever he had a chance to score, he scored. just get him the ball and he would get you the bucket. he was that good. his game was so simple. he didn't believe in complication. he was a simple guy. and simple always wins. don't over think, do what you do best over and over. and master it and make it yours. how in the world a skinny white dude with who couldn't dominate athletically be so gifted at scoring down low? it's not like mchale was a 7ft. he was legitimately 6ft 9 1/2 ish. but he did have long arms. watch him and it's all fundamentals and skill. no freak athleticism necessary.

in a way, mchale is too simple minded. just watch him coaching. lol


oh by the way, mchale's head to head against karl?


MCHALE MALONE HEAD TO HEAD

POINTS
mchale 21.
karl 27.

FG
mchale .572%.
karl s .503%.

FT
mchale .888%
karl .784%



karl couldn't stop mchale. nobody could. karl got his number, but again, just look at mchale's godly fg%. he was great at 1 thing and it didn't matter who guarded him. mchale will give you an efficient 20pts every night. all down low.

 

[zbone]

What an exciting event of Special Olympics we all can witness here!

 

[Fabtrey]

just watch spurs and miami finals. and you can see how different today's game really is. it's so different that i can't even compare players anymore. you touch a player that's a foul. wade just had a free lane because players didn't want to touch him because it's a foul. Manu got fouled by chalmers and that really isn't a foul. and game has so spread out. because of lack of big man with post skills this game has turned into who has better wings game. timmy will have his moments, but still you will see him not getting involved in the offense as much as should be. just look at how kawhi guards bron. he can't touch him. you can't put your hands on him. and that makes bron better passer, scorer, and has more room to work with. that ain't even fair.

and watching this finals game makes me appreciate what MJ has done against bad boys even more. if MJ played tonight, he would be shooting 20-25FTs. he would avg 50 because he would shoot so many damn FTs.

do you even understand what i'm talking about ztard?