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2020 All-Time Draft - Round 2: Wes Mantooth vs silesian

Who would win in a 7 game series?

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .
spycam1

spycam1

Well-Known Member
Team Wes Mantooth

Stephen Curry-Chauncey Billups
Dwayne Wade-Bradley Beal
Paul Pierce-Jaylen Brown
Chris Webber-Pascal Siakam
Alonzo Mourning-Rasheed Wallace

Team silesian

Point Rotation: Magic Johnson (40), Sidney Moncrief (8)
Wing Rotation: Sidney Moncrief (32), Rick Barry (32), Danny Green (16), Michael Cooper (16)
Big rotation: Kareem Abdul Jabbar (40), Shawn Marion (36), Al Horford (20)

silesian write-up

Outside rotation role players, selectively used depending on match-ups: Jamaal Wilkes and Shane Battier

This team was built around the best and most successful point guard in NBA history and the best and most successful Center in NBA history:

Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Magic Johnson. Number 3 and 5 on ESPN’s greatest NBA players of all time.

I've added complementary players to Kareem and Magic to create a Showtime Lakers team "on steroids". Here is the team philosophy:

(1) It starts with an elite and athletic defense that generates turnovers and creates low percentage shots….

***2 DPOY wings: Moncrief and Cooper, 7 All NBA defense: add Green, Wilkes, Battier, Horford, Jabbar plus Marion, The Matrix, an elite defender of all 5 positions.***

(2) …Low field goal percentage leads to many defensive rebounding opportunities so you add great rebounders to control the defensive boards and get the outlet to Magic…

***Peak Rebounding seasons: Kareem (16.9), Marion (11.8), Horford (10.2), Magic (9.6), Moncrief (6.7), Wilkes (8.8)***

(3) Magic orchestrates the break and places pinpoint passes to athletic and elite finishers for easy buckets….

***Elite finishers: Marion (7 seconds or less Suns), Moncrief, Wilkes, Cooper***

(4) … or distributes to three point spot-up snipers...

***Peak season 3P%: Green (.455), Battier (.430), Horford (.429), Marion (.387), Cooper (.387), Barry was best shooter in league so you can imagine him in today’s 3 point game***


(5) Complementing Plan A (Magic runs you out of the gym), Plan B is the added bonus of having the talent to execute an efficient half-court offense.

***This starts with the most unstoppable shot in NBA history, Kareem’s sky hook. And add to this spacing from many excellent 3P shooters creates lanes for Magic, Moncrief, Barry and others to exploit spacing that they never experienced in their eras***

Intangibles: (1) Magic is the undisputed alpha dog and team leader; (2) four showtime Lakers provide built-in chemistry; (3) Showtime Laker's bigs are upgraded from Kurt Rambis and Mitch Kupchak to Marion and Horford, would be fun to watch.

So while other teams have added redundancy with (for example) multiple elite isolation scorers (and one ball), this team was constructed to a consistent team concept that will win, built around Magic and Kareem.
 
We has a nice team but does not match up well in this game. How Silesian beats Wes:

  1. Wes has three starters who don’t space the floor: Wade (.293), Webber (.299) and Zo (0.247). I let them take inefficient threes and pack the paint, giving Wade little room to penetrate.
  2. Physically wear down Steph:
    • Making the focus of my defense on Steph, where I run two DPOY against him: Moncrief and Cooper (plus depth of 7 all nba defenders)
    • Force steph to play defense as he has no one to pick up defensive slack versus Magic, Moncrief and Barry. I exploit this matchup all game long, wearing him down with this plus my running game.
  3. My athletic running game is going to make it hard to keep Zo and Webber on the floor. Will get many high efficiency transition buckets.
  4. On match-ups, Wes has no clear advantage at any starting position:
  • Major advantage with Kareem over Alonzo
  • Magic is top 5, Curry top 20 all time. Hard to compare since so dissimilar by obviously Magic is overall better.
  • Edge Moncrief over Wade, Better defensively and outside shooting. Wade better scorer but not efficient, and every missed shot hurts a team in this format with so many great scorers.
  • Barry a top 50 player and clearly overall better than Pierce
  • Webber and Marion are a wash, with Marion the superior athlete, better at running the floor, a far better defender and unlike Webber can make 3s. While Webber has a better post and more rounded offensive game, we all know that post plays are low efficiency. They are two of the best players to not be in the HOF
I hate the Lakers as much as anyone, but you need to get past this bias and vote for the team that would win the series.
 
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silesian said:
what are you arguing? That wade is a good outside shooter? That he is a better defender than a two time DPOY?
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I don’t know who was a better defender, but Wade was a very good defender in his prime. He was a two time all defensive player, just because Moncrief was DPOY in another era, and wade wasn’t in another era doesn’t make him a better defender. For example. Nash is a two time mvp, does that make him a better player than John Stockton who never was top ten in voting. I never said he was a good 3pt shooter, he is a better 3pt shooter than Moncrief though.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
he is a better 3pt shooter than Moncrief though.
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three pointers were frowned upon in that era. They were rarely practiced. Look at pre game warmups now vs then. Larry Bird was only 36% from three and he was one of the best shooters of all time (later decade).
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Also Wade was


Wade was right near 50% during his prime with two years of shooting 50% and 52%. Wade was efficient.
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his career efg% was below 50%, close to league average. How do you win a tournament if all time greats when your #2 scorer has mediocre efficiency?

moncrief is my 4th or 5th option so we are really comparing apples to oranges.
 
Silesian would win in a landslide if he wrote his starters alongside his minute distrubition thing.

This is close match-up wise but I give a slight edge to Silesian because of Magic-Kareem combo.
 
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silesian said:
his career efg% was below 50%, close to league average. How do you win a tournament if all time greats when your #2 scorer has mediocre efficiency?

moncrief is my 4th or 5th option so we are really comparing apples to oranges.
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This competition isn't about their whole career. It's about them at their peak season.

Wade is better though. But he isn't better than Oscar or Kareem.
 
Ron Mexico said:
This competition isn't about their whole career. It's about them at their peak season.

Wade is better though. But he isn't better than Oscar or Kareem.
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The notion that Oscar is better than Wade is odd to me. He means more to the game historically, but I wonder how Wade would be thought of if he had played in Oscars era. His stats would’ve been much better and wade was Taylor made for that era. Personally, I think Wade would beat Oscar in a one on one. Faster, better handles more athletic. IMO of course.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
The notion that Oscar is better than Wade is odd to me. He means more to the game historically, but I wonder how Wade would be thought of if he had played in Oscars era. His stats would’ve been much better and wade was Taylor made for that era. Personally, I think Wade would beat Oscar in a one on one. Faster, better handles more athletic. IMO of course.
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This is a problem with these all time drafts though. Sometimes using older players is used against you, sometimes they aren’t. We need to do era specific drafts. I think it would be fun to do a 50’s and 60’s era draft. Would be fun to learn more about those times and it’s players and teams.
 
Hekate said:
Silesian would win in a landslide if he wrote his starters alongside his minute distrubition thing.

This is close match-up wise but I give a slight edge to Silesian because of Magic-Kareem combo.
Click to expand...

Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Sidney Moncrief
Rick Barry
Shawn Marion
 
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