MVP
Well-Known Member
no, what I am saying that list of murders is irrelevant. You need to look at gun related crimes/injuries where USA is leading in the world.
5 year old kills 2 year old sister... with a birthday present.
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no, what I am saying that list of murders is irrelevant. You need to look at gun related crimes/injuries where USA is leading in the world.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
Oh the guy was Vietnamese.
@ AKMVP The guy who subdued him until police got there was a concealed weapon permit holder so had to take training to have that.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Not sure what is funny here. See Japan example and compare their gun related injuries/murders/robbery rates to USA. I applaud Japan's "tyrants" for doing great job by banning all the hand guns from public and enforcing strict gun control. Obviously, will never happen in USA but something to look at.
The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
The point that has apparently eluded you is that guns are a tool that is used in murder but murders will find other tools to murder with if they don't get guns. If you compare the statistical data the murder rates in places with better gun laws is not lower. However having guns actually helps prevent violent crime as criminals are less likely to do violent crime knowing that they could potentially be shot at (look at that Harvard paper I linked).
Once again restricting citizens freedoms is not the answer.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Still creeps me out knowing that any random dude in any store in USA can cary the gun. Based on stats 88% of americans have the gun ( leading country in the world again by far margin)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership
So almost 9 out of 10 people shopping in Wallmart may have guns? And since USA is leading country in the world in mental health problems as well... man it is scary.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Sure and kids will find other birthday presents to kill other kids?
Again see Japan example. If you like something else, see Island. They have plenty of guns for hunting, ranked 15th in the world in guns per capita. Yet one of the lowest gun related injury/crime rate due to great control and ban on hand guns.
If you need something for self defense use gas handguns, rubber bullets, something not as fatal. I can't believe after recent gun related violence events and accidental killings by kids/teenagers in USA you guys think it is perfectly fine for 88.8% of americans to carry guns. Why on earth almost everybody needs one? Father shots son coming home late at night mistaking him for burglar - you think it is fine? Had he had gas gun his son would still be alive. Examples like that are plenty, just sickeness me anytime I read about it.
The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
And then look at Mexico or Russia which has strict gun laws and more deaths then USA. Also Chicago has one of the strictest gun laws in the United states but one of the highest rates of Murder.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Well Mexico's problem is north of the border. In the five years prior to 2012, over two-thirds of illegal firearms seized in Mexico that could be traced to a source, were traced back to the United States of America.
Not sure you right about Russia. I can't find reliable source about numbers there.
Since we talking about children here is a study comparing gun related death among children in USA vs non USA countries. Again USA is leading by far.
TABLE 1. Rates * of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death + among children aged <15 years -- United States and 25 other industrialized countries &
=================================================================================================================================================================
Firearm-related deaths
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Age group (yrs) Total homicide Total suicide Homicide Suicide Unintentional Intention undetermined Total
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0-4
U.S. 4.10 0 0.43 0 0.15 0.01 0.59
Non-U.S. 0.95 0 0.05 0 0.01 0.01 0.07
Ratio U.S.:Non-U.S. 4.3:1 8.6:1 15.0:1 1.0:1 8.4:1
5-14
U.S. 1.75 0.84 1.22 0.49 0.46 0.06 2.23
Non-U.S. 0.30 0.40 0.07 0.05 0.05 0.01 0.18
Ratio U.S.:Non-U.S. 5.8:1 2.1:1 17.4:1 9.8:1 9.2:1 6.0:1 12.4:1
0-14
U.S. 2.57 0.55 0.94 0.32 0.36 0.04 1.66
Non-U.S. 0.51 0.27 0.06 0.03 0.04 0.01 0.14
Ratio U.S.:Non-U.S. 5.0:1 2.0:1 15.7:1 10.7:1 9.0:1 4.0:1 11.9:1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Per 100,000 children in each age group and for 1 year during 1990-1995.
+ Homicides (International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision, codes E960.0-E969), sui-cides (E950.0-E959), homicides by firearm (E965.0-E965.4),
suicides by firearm (E955.0- E955.4), unintentional deaths caused by firearm (E922.0-E922.9), and firearm-related deaths for which intention was undetermined
(E985.0-E985.4).
& All countries classified in the high-income group with populations 31 million ( 5 ) that provided complete data (Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark,
England and Wales, Finland, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Netherlands, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Norway, Scotland,
Singapore, Sweden, Spain, Switzerland, and Taiwan). In this analysis, Hong Kong, Northern Ireland, and Taiwan are considered as countries.
=================================================================================================================================================================
The findings in this report document a high rate of death among U.S. children associated with violence and unintentional firearm-related injuries, particularly in comparison with other industrialized countries. Even though rates in all other countries were lower than those in the United States, rates among other countries varied substantially and were particularly low in some countries
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
Japan has twice the U.S. suicide rate, without guns, but they do make very fine cars (<---tools of great death in America).
What can we say...we like our superior firepower. Nothing against Japan, we refuse to be like Austria either.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Not true. Illinois where Chicago is is not even in top 5.
This study here tells the real storry.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-gun-deaths/69354/
From the article:
Might tighter gun control laws make a difference? Our analysis suggests that they do.
Firearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation.
While the causes of individual acts of mass violence always differ, our analysis shows fatal gun violence is less likely to occur in richer states with more post-industrial knowledge economies, higher levels of college graduates, and tighter gun laws. Factors like drug use, stress levels, and mental illness are much less significant than might be assumed.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
Why you gotta be all trying to spread your "morality" to a country you don't even live in, and complain about Muslims changing the "morality" in your own?
MVP
Well-Known Member
yeah, yeah, thats why you stuck with English unit system as well while most of the world moved on long time ago. You just can't accept that something outside of USA can be better isn't?