Almost... Almost...

[vj_74]

Right now, you're right we don't... But I have noticed that Hayward is very controlled and poised when driving the lane... Which is why we need to trial him by fire NOW and get him acclimated with the starters and this offense!

When Miles or Kirilenko drive the lane... Admit it... The first thought that pops into your mind is, "Just don't turn the ball over."

Hayward hasn't given me any reason to think that yet when he drives the lane... He actually looks very controlled and seems to have a good dribble drive game...

But we continue to waste time with washed up has beens like Bell and Kirilenko... It's time that our 9th overall pick earns his paycheck...

And don't get me started on Evans... All this kid does is hustle and make plays... These are guys you have to be awarding minutes to... But if their is one thing that has always drove me nuts about Sloan is his, "You're always better off with a seasoned veteran" mantra...

Well, this season is in grave danger of going down in flames and it might just force Sloan to get these kids in the game...

I think Hayward has been getting opportunties of late. He even started once in this recent slump. When the Jazz were winning a bunch of games earlier on, Hayward and Evans were mostly watching from the bench. Now that they have lost some you cant say that is because we dont play Hayward/Evans enough. I like to see them play limited mins so that they can continue to grow. But beyond that I dont think they are the ones who are gonna fix these problems. They are both a solid work in progress.
However I wouldnt mind Hayward getting Price's mins at all. Evans should get mins whenever it looks Elson is dragging himself out there

 

[LogGrad98]

I think Hayward has been getting opportunties of late. He even started once in this recent slump. When the Jazz were winning a bunch of games earlier on, Hayward and Evans were mostly watching from the bench. Now that they have lost some you cant say that is because we dont play Hayward/Evans enough. I like to see them play limited mins so that they can continue to grow. But beyond that I dont think they are the ones who are gonna fix these problems. They are both a solid work in progress.
However I wouldnt mind Hayward getting Price's mins at all. Evans should get mins whenever it looks Elson is dragging himself out there

I definitely do not think that Hayward and Evans are the difference between playoffs and no playoffs or anything like that, but I do think that what we are doing is obviously not working, we know the FO is very unlikely to make any moves, and one easy thing Sloan can do to shake things up is give those 2 some burn. Heck their energy and hustle may rub off and get others going. At the very least we will have a deeper rotations and we at least tried to do something. Cuz this doing nothing and getting the same results is getting old.

 

[vj_74]

Cuz this doing nothing and getting the same results is getting old.

Sloan has used 3 different starting lineups in the last 4 games. That is not exactly "doing nothing" in my book. The same results however proved Sloan right in that it had not a whole lot to do with rotation shakeups in the first place. Jazz were experiencing a collective letdown which they had to get rid of patiently and fight their way through it. Maybe all the early season comebacks were catching up finally with them. The optimist in all of us should think that they should be better off for coming out of this losing streak alive and (hopefully)stronger.

 

[jazzrule]

It is very well-known, among people who know basketball, that the calls tend to go to the aggressor. You play hard and aggressive and the refs tend to call things your way. If you knew basketball you would know this is far more likely than a vast conspiracy involving space aliens, David Stern, and major league baseball, or whatever. Give me a break.

Did I say it was a NBA thing genius? I just believe many refs just do not like the Jazz. Remember the ref who got caught gambling? He said he bet on games where he knew the refs did not like certain players or teams. Don't put words in my mouth dumb @ss. Let the Jazz player go under the basket and use his chest to knock the defender away with the pass on the way. Do you think we get a no call on the offensive foul like Ginobi?

 

[LogGrad98]

I've been watching this game for a very long time and this sport is driven by stars and great teams, and until you start winning ballgames, you don't get the calls... And the Jazz are walking a very dangerous line where they will no longer be favored at home anymore like the Clippers, Twolves, etc...

This is how this crooked NBA takes away teams hearts... Make them believe they aren't going to get a fairly officiated game and guys quit playing as hard... I wouldn't be surprised if the NBA scouts teams and categorizes them as playoff teams and non-playoff teams based on the 1st quarter of the season and calls the games accordingly for them...

Maybe it's because the Jazz never win a 1st half, or rarely do, and the NBA realizes that a team that plays that poorly out of the shoot so often is not a good candidate for the playoffs... And they would be right...

Wow you are on an entire different ethereal plane of conspiracy theory. Go man go!!

If you can not see what the Spurs were getting away with last night, you don't really know basketball.

Did I say it was a NBA thing genius? I just believe many refs just do not like the Jazz. Remember the ref who got caught gambling? He said he bet on games where he knew the refs did not like certain players or teams. Don't put words in my mouth dumb @ss. Let the Jazz player go under the basket and use his chest to knock the defender away with the pass on the way. Do you think we get a no call on the offensive foul like Ginobi?

OK let's walk through this, so you can understand how this discussion went.

In the first quote, the bold identifies a claimed conspiracy. In my quote above I call it out.

IN YOUR FIRST QUOTE (bold) YOU SUPPORT THE CONSPIRACY I CALLED OUT IN THE FIRST QUOTE ABOVE, and even had the audacity to say that if I didn't "see" that then I didn't know basketball.

Then you say that the comment you supported was not what you were supporting at all but I was claiming you supported it, but you can see that you CLEARLY WERE IN SUPPORT OF THE CONSPIRACY COMMENT.

So you put words in your own mouth then tried to claim I did.


Hey whatever lets you sleep at night buddy.

 

[northeast]

Refs favor some teams and disfavor others, that's the main point. We can argue as to the reasons why, but the fan you are ridiculing is making more valid arguments on the main point than any of the people arguing with him in this thread, including you.

Clearly the NBA has not made much -- if any -- effort to correct the unfairness of the reffing, and remove the appearance of conspiracy.

 

[LogGrad98]

Refs favor some teams and disfavor others, that's the main point. We can argue as to the reasons why, but the fan you are ridiculing is making more valid arguments on the main point than any of the people arguing with him in this thread, including you.

Clearly the NBA has not made much -- if any -- effort to correct the unfairness of the reffing, and remove the appearance of conspiracy.

Yeah I don't buy the whole conspiracy angle in whatever form you want to postulate it.

Do I think the reffing in the NBA is perfect? Of course not. Can it be one-sided and unfair? Sure it can. But I reject the idea that refs systematically prefer one team to another on any kind of consistent basis.

I remember Cuban tried to put together objective proof by tracking fouls called against the Mavs to prove they were being singled out. His numbers in the end showed nothing. If anything he proved that over the long run it evens out.

I do think that star treatment is a valid argument, and some players, whether it is status or whatever, tend to get away with more than other players. The NBA needs to do a better job of cracking down on this practice.

But really the NBA needs to do a better job of training and educating refs, holding them accountable, and enforcing more consistent calls across the board. That said, reffing in the NBA is not easy. The game is considerably faster paced than any other level of basketball, and the complexity of the potential violations puts it in many ways even above other professional sports in terms of difficulty to referee. No matter what you will never have a perfect product in terms of refereeing in the NBA.

But to raise it to the level of the NBA targeting teams, or even the refs acting out in unison on a team by team bias, is simply ludicrous.

 

[Hanginthere]

Did I say it was a NBA thing genius? I just believe many refs just do not like the Jazz. Remember the ref who got caught gambling? He said he bet on games where he knew the refs did not like certain players or teams. Don't put words in my mouth dumb @ss. Let the Jazz player go under the basket and use his chest to knock the defender away with the pass on the way. Do you think we get a no call on the offensive foul like Ginobi?

Anybody know what happened to that referee?? I remember hearing he was going to blow the whistle on the NBA and then "POOF"... He vanishes... I haven't heard of him since I heard that... And I remember it too because I was thoroughly interested in what he had to say...

But I heard NOTHING about him or of him after he made those comments... Was it "hush" money?? Did a guy named "Vito" pay him a visit??

Interesting...

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Anybody know what happened to that referee?? I remember hearing he was going to blow the whistle on the NBA and then "POOF"... He vanishes... I haven't heard of him since I heard that... And I remember it too because I was thoroughly interested in what he had to say...

But I heard NOTHING about him or of him after he made those comments... Was it "hush" money?? Did a guy named "Vito" pay him a visit??

Interesting...

Dude wrote a book and, due to his felonious activity, has been black listed by everyone with a shred of credibility.

 

[northeast]

... to raise it to the level of the NBA targeting teams, or even the refs acting out in unison on a team by team bias, is simply ludicrous.

No, I disagree. The refs favor some teams and give others grief. Whether they do it in a pre-planned manner is debatable, but it is not ludicrous.

We don't know that nothing came of Cuban's complaints, or that there were not other teams treated worse than Cuban's teams, or that his team wasn't treated better or worse because of his complaints.

Also, his studies were probably not scientific, or objective, and most likely only involved Dallas games, not all the rest of them, so even if Dallas was treated fairly, that does not prove anything with regards to all the other teams in the league.

 

[northeast]

Dude wrote a book and, due to his felonious activity, has been black listed by everyone with a shred of credibility.

Dude was right. Read the book. It is very credible.

 

[zman1527]

Sloan has used 3 different starting lineups in the last 4 games. That is not exactly "doing nothing" in my book. The same results however proved Sloan right in that it had not a whole lot to do with rotation shakeups in the first place. Jazz were experiencing a collective letdown which they had to get rid of patiently and fight their way through it. Maybe all the early season comebacks were catching up finally with them. The optimist in all of us should think that they should be better off for coming out of this losing streak alive and (hopefully)stronger.

Yes indeed vj, this underperformance clearly has nothing to do with the HC. Nothing at all, Sloan is an infallible god.

 

[LogGrad98]

No, I disagree. The refs favor some teams and give others grief. Whether they do it in a pre-planned manner is debatable, but it is not ludicrous.

We don't know that nothing came of Cuban's complaints, or that there were not other teams treated worse than Cuban's teams, or that his team wasn't treated better or worse because of his complaints.

Also, his studies were probably not scientific, or objective, and most likely only involved Dallas games, not all the rest of them, so even if Dallas was treated fairly, that does not prove anything with regards to all the other teams in the league.

Well we can agree to disagree then. I do think that the refs are fallible and maybe individually carry grudges and it taints the way they call particular games, but I sure don't take it to the level of the "referees" as a group having it out for specific teams.

 

[slc]

The turnover rate for NBA refs seems high. Not sure. Anyways if this is true about that the NBA refs calls are scripted surely one ex NBA ref would have exposed this, written a book, made the talk show rounds, cashed in, etc. Are all ex NBA refs immediately killed off to hide the truth?

 

[northeast]

The turnover rate for NBA refs seems high. Not sure. Anyways if this is true about that the NBA refs calls are scripted surely one ex NBA ref would have exposed this, written a book, made the talk show rounds, cashed in, etc. Are all ex NBA refs immediately killed off to hide the truth?

It would not have to be so overt. it could simply be that refs who favor the Bulls and Lakers tend to keep their jobs, and those who don't, don't.