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"Best NBA Player" ever???

The-Joker said:
Here's how I'd put it
best player
MJ
best defender
MJ
most dominant
Wilt
most clutch
MJ/Kobe
most unstoppable
Kobe
best shooter
Larry Bird
best scorer
Kobe
biggest freak
Lebron/Wilt

I gotta give credit to Kobe... nobody hits as many "in your face" jumpshots with the pressure on. I mean there was a time when Kobe could score, whenever he wanted to. Literally, no matter who was guarding him he pull up, go around, go through, anybody and put the ball in the basket.

I think if Kobe and MJ played a game of 1 on 1 in their primes. If the stakes were 1 million dollars, Kobe would win handily. If the stakes were zero dollars, MJ would win handily. Thats the kind of players/people they were.
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...the jokers post is, well....beyond believable! He's wrong on so many counts it's not even funny. If you were going to pick best defender, then Bill Russell would have to be on top. He not only blocked the most shots...but he blocked them and GRABBED them, rather than smacking them out of bounds for the opposing team to retain possession and probably score. Kobe was NOT and is NOT unstoppable. Nor does he have an unstoppable shot. Kareem had the most unstoppable shot, if there is, in fact, such a thing. Larry Bird was a good shooter, but certainly not the best. Reggie Miller and Ray Allen were both better shooters from the outside. Statistically, I don't know who shot the highest percentage from the field for a career, but I could look it up. Jordan had the highest competitive streak between him and Kobe....so I would take Jordan over Kobe in a one on one contest anyday of the week and twice on Sunday! Plus, Jordan was just a smarter ball player than Kobe.
 
vslice02 said:
Hard to make comparisons from those eras. It's a much different game, and athletes are simply bigger, stronger, faster now than in the 50's and 60's.
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I think it's pretty easy to say LeBron, Kobe, Dwight Howard etc would have destroyed in the Bill Russell era.

Dolph Schayes was 6'7 195 and played center and was averaging 20-12. Bob Pettit 6'9 205 getting 26-16 over his career.

Some of the guys like Robertson, Baylor, West etc would be great in any era. But some of those old time big guys would get killed in todays NBA.
 
Larry Bird was a good shooter, but certainly not the best. Reggie Miller and Ray Allen were both better shooters from the outside. Statistically, I don't know who shot the highest percentage from the field for a career, but I could look it up.
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Bird: 49.6% FG, 37% 3pt, 88% FT
Miller: 47.1% FG, 39.5 3PT, 88% FT
Allen: 45% FG, 39.9 3PT, 89.3% FT

Bird destroys both in rebounding, defense, & assists though. Miller & Allen both great shooters but not nearly the complete player Bird was. Bird could truly do it all.
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
Some of the guys like Robertson, Baylor, West etc would be great in any era. But some of those old time big guys would get killed in todays NBA.
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Sure, 2011 Dwight Howard would win a matchup with 1964 Bill Russell - but you can do that in almost every sport. Completely different eras. You can't say Otto Graham would be a great quarterback in today's NFL - but he's still a great QB who played in a different era. Same for Johnny Unitas - who didn't have anywhere near the size of Peyton Manning, the arm strength of Dan Marino or the mobility of Michael Vick but is still one of the greatest QB's who ever played. Just because the game has changed and athletes are bigger, stronger, faster now than before - doesn't diminish the greatness of players from the 50's, 60's or 70's.
 
carolinajazz said:
...the jokers post is, well....beyond believable! He's wrong on so many counts it's not even funny. If you were going to pick best defender, then Bill Russell would have to be on top. He not only blocked the most shots...but he blocked them and GRABBED them, rather than smacking them out of bounds for the opposing team to retain possession and probably score. Kobe was NOT and is NOT unstoppable. Nor does he have an unstoppable shot. Kareem had the most unstoppable shot, if there is, in fact, such a thing. Larry Bird was a good shooter, but certainly not the best. Reggie Miller and Ray Allen were both better shooters from the outside. Statistically, I don't know who shot the highest percentage from the field for a career, but I could look it up. Jordan had the highest competitive streak between him and Kobe....so I would take Jordan over Kobe in a one on one contest anyday of the week and twice on Sunday! Plus, Jordan was just a smarter ball player than Kobe.
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Kareem had an unstoppable shot-- a given.

Kobe has/had an unstoppable game.

We also have to consider Russell was defending 6'4 white guys. Wilt was really the only supreme challenge as a big he came up against, and that was in his later years. Ben Wallace would have probably put up 30 boards and 15 blocks in that league. Jordan was defending Magic, Bird, John/Karl, Gary Payton, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins. It is much more difficult to be a great small defender than a great big defender.

The best shooter debate is arguable. I'll take Bird, you can have who you want... i don't really care.

I honestly think Kobe is/was more talented than MJ. I think MJ had all the mental aspects of the game to make him the greatest player ever, but in a *** for tat skills match I think Kobe is better.
 
vslice02 said:
Sure, 2011 Dwight Howard would win a matchup with 1964 Bill Russell - but you can do that in almost every sport. Completely different eras. You can't say Otto Graham would be a great quarterback in today's NFL - but he's still a great QB who played in a different era. Same for Johnny Unitas - who didn't have anywhere near the size of Peyton Manning, the arm strength of Dan Marino or the mobility of Michael Vick but is still one of the greatest QB's who ever played. Just because the game has changed and athletes are bigger, stronger, faster now than before - doesn't diminish the greatness of players from the 50's, 60's or 70's.
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So if the players today are clearly superior why do people insist on saying the old time player are still better?
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
Bird: 49.6% FG, 37% 3pt, 88% FT
Miller: 47.1% FG, 39.5 3PT, 88% FT
Allen: 45% FG, 39.9 3PT, 89.3% FT

Bird destroys both in rebounding, defense, & assists though. Miller & Allen both great shooters but not nearly the complete player Bird was. Bird could truly do it all.
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...so Bird did have a higher shooting percentage than Miller and Allen! Surprised me a little! I thought he'd have had a higher 3 point shooting percentage. I think Bird was also taking 3 pointers when the line was farther back, too, wasn't he?
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
I think it's pretty easy to say LeBron, Kobe, Dwight Howard etc would have destroyed in the Bill Russell era.

Dolph Schayes was 6'7 195 and played center and was averaging 20-12. Bob Pettit 6'9 205 getting 26-16 over his career.

Some of the guys like Robertson, Baylor, West etc would be great in any era. But some of those old time big guys would get killed in todays NBA.
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...if those guys played in the old era, they wouldn't have been nearly as fit as they are today....so the comparison is not going to work. What we DO know is that Russell and those older era guys had a heck of a lot more BASKETBALL BRAINS than these clowns have today! They were much more fundamentally sound in all aspects of the game! Many shorter players dominated the paint even in recent years! Wes Unseld, Charles Barkley, Rodman, just to name a few!
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
I think it's pretty easy to say LeBron, Kobe, Dwight Howard etc would have destroyed in the Bill Russell era.

Dolph Schayes was 6'7 195 and played center and was averaging 20-12. Bob Pettit 6'9 205 getting 26-16 over his career.

Some of the guys like Robertson, Baylor, West etc would be great in any era. But some of those old time big guys would get killed in todays NBA.
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....if given the same set of circumstances to build up body mass and muscle tone, those older era guys would have been better than these clowns today! Plus, I don't know how you can say modern guys are "faster" or "quicker" than those guys back in the 70's and 80's! You can only get so fast.....before you lose the ball in transition! Of course, they SEEM faster today because they can palm the ball and travel with impunity! Rickey Green, Nate Archiball, and few others who's names allude me at this time....were as fast as anybody in the league today! Guys jumped just as high or even higher then, too! David Thompson, Julius Irving, and others got pretty high off the ground when they wanted to!
 
carolinajazz said:
...if those guys played in the old era, they wouldn't have been nearly as fit as they are today....so the comparison is not going to work. What we DO know is that Russell and those older era guys had a heck of a lot more BASKETBALL BRAINS than these clowns have today! They were much more fundamentally sound in all aspects of the game! Many shorter players dominated the paint even in recent years! Wes Unseld, Charles Barkley, Rodman, just to name a few!
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Why wouldn't they be fit? I don't see where you think they were more fundamentally sound? How do measure basketball brains? WTF are you arguing?

Wes Unseld and Rodman were both great rebounders but hardly dominant. How many games did you see Rodman take over? Please.

Barkley proved he could dominate against bigger opponents. Schayes, Russell, Pettit did it against smaller players. Barkley would have been even more dominating in that era.
 
carolinajazz said:
....if given the same set of circumstances to build up body mass and muscle tone, those older era guys would have been better than these clowns today! Plus, I don't know how you can say modern guys are "faster" or "quicker" than those guys back in the 70's and 80's! You can only get so fast.....before you lose the ball in transition! Of course, they SEEM faster today because they can palm the ball and travel with impunity! Rickey Green, Nate Archiball, and few others who's names allude me at this time....were as fast as anybody in the league today! Guys jumped just as high or even higher then, too! David Thompson, Julius Irving, and others got pretty high off the ground when they wanted to!
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Bill Russell didnt have the chance to build up muscle tone? Huh? The big guys are much more agile in recent years. Hakeem, Robinson, Malone, Howard, LeBron would all have been giants back in the day and just as quick as guys much smaller. Chamberlain was the only one who was big by today's standard and look what he did.
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
Bill Russell didnt have the chance to build up muscle tone? Huh?
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Training methods and nutritional techniques have improved greatly in the last 50 years. We don't know how tall Russell would have been, or how strong, in today's NBA, but he likely would have been taller, stronger, and faster.
 
One Brow said:
Training methods and nutritional techniques have improved greatly in the last 50 years. We don't know how tall Russell would have been, or how strong, in today's NBA, but he likely would have been taller, stronger, and faster.
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What methods are they using to make guys taller?
 
One Brow said:
Training methods and nutritional techniques have improved greatly in the last 50 years. We don't know how tall Russell would have been, or how strong, in today's NBA, but he likely would have been taller, stronger, and faster.
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...thank you brow...for setting them straight! Exactly my point as well! Don't know that Russell would have been any taller....I doubt he could have been any quicker...but he would certainly have been stronger!
 
Detlef Schrempf hands down! Wait..... We are talking about NBA Jam right....?
 
Seriously is so hard to pick the best player ever. I'd have to say the combo of Pippen/Jordan, Kobe/Shaq, Stockton/Malone were my favorites to watch
 
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