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Biden's Tax Plan

Joe Bagadonuts said:
Can you explain why the tax revenue went up when Trump cut taxes? Do you consider higher government revenue a good thing or a bad thing?
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The economy continued the upward trend started by Obama. US tax revenues increased by over 50% during the4 Obama budgets.
 
fishonjazz said:
For the first one? More people got jobs. For the second one? Inflation. Wages always go up.

Did you know I made 4.25 per hour when I was 17?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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Hmm. The graph shows that inflation has been pretty moderate. It's interesting that wages only started going up in response to this level of inflation just recently:
historical-inflation-rate-by-year.png

But even if we accept your premise that the wage increases are nothing but a response to inflation (they are not, BTW), it would still be interesting to dig a little deeper into your claims. Where did the new jobs come from?

Edit: Oh, and my first job was as a dishwasher at age 14. I made $3 something an hour (I think). I remember receiving my first paycheck. I thought I was rolling in dough. I'm doing quite a bit better than that now.
 
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Joe Bagadonuts said:
Hmm. The graph shows that inflation has been pretty moderate. It's interesting that wages only started going up in response to this level of inflation just recently:
historical-inflation-rate-by-year.png

But even if we accept your premise that the wage increases are nothing but a response to inflation (they are not, BTW), it would still be interesting to dig a little deeper into your claims. Where did the new jobs come from?

Edit: Oh, and my first job was as a dishwasher at age 14. I made $3 something an hour (I think). I remember receiving my first paycheck. I thought I was rolling in dough. I'm doing quite a bit better than that now.
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Maybe you want to explain why the unemployment rate went down and wages went up. Just know that if you say that it's because trump cut taxes on the rich then I'm going to ask you to go back through history and show that every other time wages went up and unemployment went down there was also a tax cut to the rich at the same time.

Also, if the answer to a great economy is simply cutting taxes then you would think that ever president would cut taxes and have the perfect economy then they would always get re elected.

When Biden is president he should simply make it so that no one pays any taxes. Then we would have a zero% unemployment rate and everyone would be millionaires.
I never knew economics were so simple.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
fishonjazz said:
Maybe you want to explain why the unemployment rate went down and wages went up. Just know that if you say that it's because trump cut taxes on the rich then I'm going to ask you to go back through history and show that every other time wages went up and unemployment went down there was also a tax cut to the rich at the same time.

Also, if the answer to a great economy is simply cutting taxes then you would think that ever president would cut taxes and have the perfect economy then they would always get re elected.

When Biden is president he should simply make it so that no one pays any taxes. Then we would have a zero% unemployment rate and everyone would be millionaires.
I never knew economics were so simple.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...
You're smarter than this, Fish.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Hmm. The graph shows that inflation has been pretty moderate. It's interesting that wages only started going up in response to this level of inflation just recently:
historical-inflation-rate-by-year.png

But even if we accept your premise that the wage increases are nothing but a response to inflation (they are not, BTW), it would still be interesting to dig a little deeper into your claims. Where did the new jobs come from?

Edit: Oh, and my first job was as a dishwasher at age 14. I made $3 something an hour (I think). I remember receiving my first paycheck. I thought I was rolling in dough. I'm doing quite a bit better than that now.
Click to expand...

Your whole point is that higher taxes make companies and the rich to move their money overseas: heads up...the corporate tax has shrinked the last few decades:
1603434357742.png
Corporations are enjoying lower taxes, making tons of money and taking it overseas anyway. Have you heard about tax havens?.

You also said that tax revenues are increasing because of lower taxes. You have not provided any evidence of this. You are basically saying that tax collection is pretty elastic, with the tax base increase more than compensating for lower tax payments. Please demostrate this, and not just simple growth of tax revenues. Remember: correlation is not causation. Tax revenue go toe to toe with economic activity (GDP) and tend to grow over time (you need to use a base year to adjust for inflation). That's economy 101. And to make it clear, the US economy has been growing since the Obama administration, right until the covid crisis.

Furthermore, you should ask yourself, who is paying more taxes nowdays? the rich? the middle class? the corporations?. The graph above might help you answer that. And if you want a comparative view, see this chart about tax on corporate profits, and how the US pales vs OECD countries. For fiscal purposes, OECD data is pretty good.
1603436285574.png
Also, there are many ways to foster economic activity besides lower corporate taxes: monetary (interest rates) & fiscal policy (public spending), labor reform, investment climate, rebalance trade and capital flows, R&D, grants and tax incentives for small businesses , etc
 
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D
latin jazz said:
Your whole point is that higher taxes make companies and the rich to move their money overseas: heads up...the corporate tax has shrinked the last few decades:
View attachment 9837
Corporations are enjoying lower taxes, making tons of money and taking it overseas anyway. Have you heard about tax havens?.

You also said that tax revenues are increasing because of lower taxes. You have not provided any evidence of this. You are basically saying that tax collection is pretty elastic, with the tax base increase more than compensating for lower tax payments. Please demostrate this, and not just simple growth of tax revenues. Remember: correlation is not causation. Tax revenue go toe to toe with economic activity (GDP) and tend to grow over time (you need to use a base year to adjust for inflation). That's economy 101. And to make it clear, the US economy has been growing since the Obama administration, right until the covid crisis.

Furthermore, you should ask yourself, who is paying more taxes nowdays? the rich? the middle class? the corporations?. The graph above might help you answer that. And if you want a comparative view, see this chart about tax on corporate profits, and how the US pales vs OECD countries. For fiscal purposes, OECD data is pretty good.
View attachment 9838
Also, there are many ways to foster economic activity besides lower corporate taxes: monetary (interest rates) & fiscal policy (public spending), labor reform, investment climate, rebalance trade and capital flows, R&D, grants and tax incentives for small businesses , etc
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So you agree with Fish that the economic activity fortunately picked up for no particular reason at the same time that Trump cut taxes. He just got lucky that things got so hot that they more than made up for the lost revenue?
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
D

So you agree with Fish that the economic activity fortunately picked up for no particular reason at the same time that Trump cut taxes. He just got lucky that things got so hot that they more than made up for the lost revenue?
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No, don't agree with that. You clearly weren't paying attention. I said " the US economy has been growing since the Obama administration, right until the covid crisis". This is a fact. And again, you didn't get the point of causation/correlation (or any of the other points I was making)

Fishy tactics uh...misquote/evade.
 
latin jazz said:
No, don't agree with that. You clearly weren't paying attention. I said " the US economy has been growing since the Obama administration, right until the covid crisis". And again, you didn't get the point of causation/correlation (or any of the other points I was making)
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Consider the source you’re arguing with. Lower the expectations. You’re welcome
 
One Brow said:
Why be so rude about it?
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Haha is this a serious question?

Because Joe is dishonest. Because all Joe makes are bad faith arguments. Because even after proven wrong, Joe still insists he’s right. Instructing someone to lower expectations for a troll like figure is only rude if you’re expecting him to make good faith arguments. Which Joe doesn’t.
 
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latin jazz said:
No, don't agree with that. You clearly weren't paying attention. I said " the US economy has been growing since the Obama administration, right until the covid crisis". This is a fact. And again, you didn't get the point of causation/correlation (or any of the other points I was making)

Fishy tactics uh...misquote/evade.
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I got all of that. I do not disagree that the economy was growing (albeit slowly) prior to the cut. I do not disagree that correlation is not causation either. I can't help but think it's interesting that just as the taxes were lowered the economy simultaneously heated up, so much so that government revenues went up instead of down subsequent to the cut. Trump got very lucky on that one, didn't he? I wish I had time to conduct an in depth study of exactly why that happened, but I'm too busy making money.
 
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