Burglar Shot Dead

[C l u t c H 385]

Me? C'mon. I'd said I'd hit that.

Assault? Gay bashin, eh? That your game? That won't fly here homeslice.

 

[Archie Moses]

That's the entire point. He wasn't in the home. He was attempting to break in. You are both employing the same method of making my arguments seem inferior by marginalizing what I'm saying. You are contradicting yourself by saying that it would suck but you would have no reason popping off a shot without warning on a person who was attempting to get your sliding glass door open. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that warning the intruder is a good policy, in favor of "shoot first, ask questions later" makes you come across as if you're trying to act tough. The bottom line is that in every attempt to make your point the best you can come up with is that you will do whatever it takes to protect your family. I'm not saying I wouldn't do that, I would just do it in a more reasonable way than walking downstairs, seeing that someone's trying to break in, making sure its not my kid, and then blasting him.

Most my posts have been about people actually breaking into homes in general. A lot of what I said wasn't actually reference the OP's story. Like I've said for millionth time, I understand why someone would shoot someone who's breaking into their house. I don't know all the details about the original story, and I already said on the first page he shot him through a window or something like that so it's not going to look good in his favor. However, you never know what your going to do when you're scared *****ess because some moron/criminal is breaking into your home. I'm not that dumb to think that every situation necessarily needs to be handle with shoot first ask questions later. Of course not. However, like marcus and I have both said, you never know how you're going to react in a situation like that. It would probably make you do somethings you normally wouldn't do, especially if you feel your family is in danger. It would be very hard for me to pull the trigger, but nothing is more important to me than my family. I couldn't tell you what I would for sure unless something actually happened.

 

[One Brow]

Why would he come back? ... Then you get into irrationality.

Actually, you never left irrationality. So much so, I'm not sure now if you are trolling.

 

[Beantown]

11 pages..really?

 

[One Brow]

That last point is especially salient. Rationality - on both sides - flies out of the window faster than the bullets that are launching out of your gun.

All the more reason to not fire when the perpetrator is on the other side of a glass door.

 

[One Brow]

If you turned on the house lights inside you become blind to what is outside the window whereas you will be lit up like a Christmas tree for the intruder to easily see... and take aim if that's the intent.

Lighting the porch light would have likely meant crossing the floor in front of the glass window where the intruder was trying to gain entrance making yourself an easy target. Porch light switches are typically located right next to the door. Not only do you take the risk of being seen you put yourself that much closer to the danger.

So, you don't turn on an inside light because you will go from being hidden to being easy to see. You don't turn on an outside light because you are easy to see even though the lights are out. Got it.

 

[C l u t c H 385]

So, you don't turn on an inside light because you will go from being hidden to being easy to see. You don't turn on an outside light because you are easy to see even though the lights are out. Got it.

You really can't understand what he is saying? And you aren't sure OTHERS are trolling?

 

[One Brow]

You really can't understand what he is saying? And you aren't sure OTHERS are trolling?

I understood his point. That doesn't mean it was realistic.

Moreever, the logic I parodied seems to be typical of the many contradictory features these putative burglars seem to have. They are simultaneously sober enough to be able to fire off a couple of rounds after you warn them before you can get off a shot, high enough that they don't care if they die, and organized enough to track you down after a brief sound. They are absolutely committed into breaking into your hgome in particular, even though they chose it apparently at random. Etc.

 

[C l u t c H 385]

Oh, so you were just bein a dick?

 

[Revolution 9]

Thanks dudes.

Here's my take:

I am a registered gun owner and have been for close to 12 years now. In that time, I have gone over this same scenario 100 times in my head. And I've done this not because Im paranoid but because I want to prepared as well as I can. I find that when you play over a situation in your head over and over and over again, you have a tendency to go into auto mode when the scenario arises.

Here in California, we have the castle doctrine. Wiki it. Anyway, even with that law on the books, there are stipulations of things that you can or can't do. I know if I ever shoot a person entering my place illegally, I'm not going to say a word to the cops once they arrive. Lawyer first. Cops **** things up and I don't trust them. If there is one thing I do say to them, it'll be, "Before I shot him, I yelled out this is my home and I have a right to protect it. I am armed." What this statement does is set the tone of the situation and that I was of right mind and that I was in control.

That said, I never, ever, want to be in this situation. I never want to have to take another person's life.

well said. +1 rep

 

[Gameface]

I understood his point. That doesn't mean it was realistic.

Moreever, the logic I parodied seems to be typical of the many contradictory features these putative burglars seem to have. They are simultaneously sober enough to be able to fire off a couple of rounds after you warn them before you can get off a shot, high enough that they don't care if they die, and organized enough to track you down after a brief sound. They are absolutely committed into breaking into your hgome in particular, even though they chose it apparently at random. Etc.

That's sort of the point. You don't know who the person is or what they want.

 

[Scat]

So, you don't turn on an inside light because you will go from being hidden to being easy to see. You don't turn on an outside light because you are easy to see even though the lights are out. Got it.

Purposefully obtuse. That is One Brow's specialty.

In other recent news, they just said on the news that the attempted break-in was at the back door. Not many drunk college students are going to hop a fence in an attempt to find a place to crash at their friends. The victim identified the intruder as having a screwdriver in his hand that he was using to try and open the door. Not many drunk college students carry a screwdriver around with them when attempting to enter their friend's house to crash. In fact, the dead man was found still clutching a screw driver. The victim fired one shot. The perp ran. The victim thought he had scared him off not realizing that he had even hit the intruder. He called 911.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Actually, you never left irrationality. So much so, I'm not sure now if you are trolling.

So a would be invader would act exactly how you know you would act if you were ever to be a would be invader. Got it.

 

[Scat]

I understood his point. That doesn't mean it was realistic.

What was unrealistic about anything I said? Please, rather than being an *** state your reasoning.

 

[Boondocksaint27]

I understood his point. That doesn't mean it was realistic.

Moreever, the logic I parodied seems to be typical of the many contradictory features these putative burglars seem to have. They are simultaneously sober enough to be able to fire off a couple of rounds after you warn them before you can get off a shot, high enough that they don't care if they die, and organized enough to track you down after a brief sound. They are absolutely committed into breaking into your hgome in particular, even though they chose it apparently at random. Etc.

Have you ever had any experience with career criminals under the influence of a hard narcotic in the logic you parodied One Brow? I can say that I have. You're using your logic on something that is illogical and contradictory by the nature of the drug itself. Let's just take methamphetamine for example, (and this is just for this scenario, not the facts of the case) in the scenario you played out. Yes individuals on meth can fire off a couple of rounds rather quickly, it doesn't take any extreme mental power to aim at a sound and pull a trigger. Yes, not all but some, are high enough (meth produces a euphoria) that they feel they are invincible. And yes, once again they can still hear, they can still fire a bullet towards a sound. They may not have rolled up on your house thinking "I'm going to break into this bitch no matter what." But once confronted they are either going to flee or fight, and I'm not willing to bank on them fleeing. If you are dealing with a career criminal, their main concern is that there is now a witness for them to worry about. And true, they may have picked your house at random, or it could be your cousins tweaker friend who happened to hear that you had some good pawnable stuff in there. Or it could have been someone who walked past your house and saw you watching a nice TV or on your nice computer through the window.

In regards to the news story, apparently the individual was holding a screw driver? With the 3 AM darkness that the homeowner had to deal with I would guess he believed that they individuals was holding a knife. Hard to determine a knife from a screwdriver at 3 AM.

 

[VINYLONE]

There seems to some obvious things left out or not addressed:

1. All bullets should be kept in the upper right hand breast pocket. A true law man or serious gun owner only needs one.

2. Attempting to break in is not breaking in. I would guess the homeowner who shoots while somebody is in process of "trying" to break in vs. somebody that shoots at an intruder that had already entered the premises are two different situations.

3. I like what Viny wrote about thinking it through. Perhaps even go as far as practicing to the point of even waking oneself up at night for a dry run would be a huge advantage.

4. Prodigal Punk is spot on. The instances leading up to eventually having somebody in your sights is mind blowing beyond belief. I have been involved in two situations while in the military. One just seconds away from discharging my weapon, one other prepared but luckily not to the brink. In both situations I was adequately trained, with clear guidelines and rule of engagement. Neither situations involved being startled in the middle of the night from REM sleep. In that situation the heart rate and adrenalin would be seriously off the charts. The average homeowner would have about a zero percent change of reacting rationally under those physical and emotional states. Pretending to be able to assess the intruders intentions and default to the appropriate response is silly.

5. Any would be intruder undertaking such endeavors is taking on extreme risk that the task will end very badly. It is impossible for me to have any sympathy. Having a crappy *** life is no excuse. Many people have crappy lives and stay crime free.

6. They call it deadly force for a reason. If you are going to use karate, rubber bullets, a 9 iron, or arm wrestle the dude for your stereo set, you might as well get a dog. Dogs do strange things to people, especially those doing something they shouldn't be doing. A well trained protection dog would solve many problems in this scenario.

Probably one of the most well reasoned posts in this tripe filled thread.

All you guys ever want to do is argue and convince the other person that you're right and they're wrong. Who the **** cares. Do what is good for yourself and for your family. In my case, cat.

As pearl mentioned, the adrenaline that kicks in from being put in this situation is overwhelming and for most of us, if not all of us, the situation get out of hand very, very easily. Hence the preparation and mind exercises I've done over the years. I like the idea of a dry run as pearl mentioned. And I might just do that.

 

[C l u t c H 385]

Anyone else think pearl was just being an *** when he suggested doing a "dry run?"

I was laughing my *** off picturing some Dwight Schrute-esque tool try to plan the un-plannable.

 

[bigb]

Admittedly, I only read about half this thread, since it was nothing more than Archie and unlucky17 arguing, but here's a couple thoughts I had:
This same homeowner was awoken earlier in the night by someone at his door, who then left. That probably put him very much on edge for the night. When he awoke later hearing strange noises, he's obviously going to think the worst. To have his suspicions proven right, he's going to take the next step.
I've always been taught to shoot center mass. Trying to wound someone in the leg is ******** for the movies. If I'm in a position to defend myself or my family with a gun, I'm aiming at the dude's sternum.
Rubber bullets are a great theory. If this home burglar is on drugs or has something other than a quick stereo robbery in mind, a rubber bullet probably isn't going to stop them. In all instances that I can think of, when cops are firing rubber bullets, the cops are not alone. I would bet a year's salary that several of the cops in theses instances are carrying live rounds just in case the rubber bullets don't do the trick. Unless I have someone else with me carrying live rounds, rubber bullets aren't going in my gun. I'm personally not going to take that chance with my life and the lives of my wife and kids.
I saw someone mention security systems. A good burglar can disable even a really good security system within seconds. That's pretty much a moot point. I've had cops tell me that a big dog is better than a security system, but I have an acquaintance whose dog was killed before the burglars broke in.
I sincerely hope I never kill anyone. But if it comes down to shooting someone or allowing them have their way with my house and family, game over, I am pulling the trigger.

 

[One Brow]

Oh, so you were just bein a dick?

I accord your judgement with all the seriousness your posting history has earned.

That's sort of the point. You don't know who the person is or what they want.

That doesn't mean they want fifteen contradictory things all at once.

Purposefully obtuse. That is One Brow's specialty.

I understand rank fear as well as anyone else.

In other recent news, they just said on the news that the attempted break-in was at the back door. Not many drunk college students are going to hop a fence in an attempt to find a place to crash at their friends.

Couldn't have been much of a fence if he hopped it with a hole in his chest after he was shot.

The victim identified the intruder as having a screwdriver in his hand that he was using to try and open the door. Not many drunk college students carry a screwdriver around with them when attempting to enter their friend's house to crash.

I agree it was likely a burglar.

So a would be invader would act exactly how you know you would act if you were ever to be a would be invader. Got it.

Expecting people to act consistently to who they are is not the same as saying they would act like me. People trying to quietly enter a home out of sight are not looking for noisy confrontations.

What was unrealistic about anything I said? Please, rather than being an *** state your reasoning.

ONce you know there is someone at the glass door, instead of turning on the lights and leaving them on, you can flash the lights. That way they know someone is there, but don't get the sight advantage. That's assuming your house is so small that you can't use other rooms, windows, etc.

Have you ever had any experience with career criminals under the influence of a hard narcotic in the logic you parodied One Brow?

It's been about 30 years, and they were neighborhood kids so it was a little soon to call them "career criminals". So, I would say no. For that matter, outside of police personnel, neither has anyone else on this board.

I can say that I have.

I'm not going to downplay that. I have no doubt you deal with the absolue worst situations on a regular basis. Average citizens don't.

In regards to the news story, apparently the individual was holding a screw driver? With the 3 AM darkness that the homeowner had to deal with I would guess he believed that they individuals was holding a knife. Hard to determine a knife from a screwdriver at 3 AM.

Would this be a glass-penetrating knife? With the glass door still closed, how is the knife a threat at that time?

As usual, credit to The Pearl for his analysis. Also, many good comments from VinylOne, Gameface, and Stickler.

 

[One Brow]

I've had cops tell me that a big dog is better than a security system, but I have an acquaintance whose dog was killed before the burglars broke in.

I'm lucky enough that we have room for indoor dogs.