Burglar Shot Dead

[C l u t c H 385]

Anyone else think pearl was just being an *** when he suggested doing a "dry run?"

I was laughing my *** off picturing some Dwight Schrute-esque tool try to plan the un-plannable.

 

[bigb]

Admittedly, I only read about half this thread, since it was nothing more than Archie and unlucky17 arguing, but here's a couple thoughts I had:
This same homeowner was awoken earlier in the night by someone at his door, who then left. That probably put him very much on edge for the night. When he awoke later hearing strange noises, he's obviously going to think the worst. To have his suspicions proven right, he's going to take the next step.
I've always been taught to shoot center mass. Trying to wound someone in the leg is ******** for the movies. If I'm in a position to defend myself or my family with a gun, I'm aiming at the dude's sternum.
Rubber bullets are a great theory. If this home burglar is on drugs or has something other than a quick stereo robbery in mind, a rubber bullet probably isn't going to stop them. In all instances that I can think of, when cops are firing rubber bullets, the cops are not alone. I would bet a year's salary that several of the cops in theses instances are carrying live rounds just in case the rubber bullets don't do the trick. Unless I have someone else with me carrying live rounds, rubber bullets aren't going in my gun. I'm personally not going to take that chance with my life and the lives of my wife and kids.
I saw someone mention security systems. A good burglar can disable even a really good security system within seconds. That's pretty much a moot point. I've had cops tell me that a big dog is better than a security system, but I have an acquaintance whose dog was killed before the burglars broke in.
I sincerely hope I never kill anyone. But if it comes down to shooting someone or allowing them have their way with my house and family, game over, I am pulling the trigger.

 

[One Brow]

Oh, so you were just bein a dick?

I accord your judgement with all the seriousness your posting history has earned.

That's sort of the point. You don't know who the person is or what they want.

That doesn't mean they want fifteen contradictory things all at once.

Purposefully obtuse. That is One Brow's specialty.

I understand rank fear as well as anyone else.

In other recent news, they just said on the news that the attempted break-in was at the back door. Not many drunk college students are going to hop a fence in an attempt to find a place to crash at their friends.

Couldn't have been much of a fence if he hopped it with a hole in his chest after he was shot.

The victim identified the intruder as having a screwdriver in his hand that he was using to try and open the door. Not many drunk college students carry a screwdriver around with them when attempting to enter their friend's house to crash.

I agree it was likely a burglar.

So a would be invader would act exactly how you know you would act if you were ever to be a would be invader. Got it.

Expecting people to act consistently to who they are is not the same as saying they would act like me. People trying to quietly enter a home out of sight are not looking for noisy confrontations.

What was unrealistic about anything I said? Please, rather than being an *** state your reasoning.

ONce you know there is someone at the glass door, instead of turning on the lights and leaving them on, you can flash the lights. That way they know someone is there, but don't get the sight advantage. That's assuming your house is so small that you can't use other rooms, windows, etc.

Have you ever had any experience with career criminals under the influence of a hard narcotic in the logic you parodied One Brow?

It's been about 30 years, and they were neighborhood kids so it was a little soon to call them "career criminals". So, I would say no. For that matter, outside of police personnel, neither has anyone else on this board.

I can say that I have.

I'm not going to downplay that. I have no doubt you deal with the absolue worst situations on a regular basis. Average citizens don't.

In regards to the news story, apparently the individual was holding a screw driver? With the 3 AM darkness that the homeowner had to deal with I would guess he believed that they individuals was holding a knife. Hard to determine a knife from a screwdriver at 3 AM.

Would this be a glass-penetrating knife? With the glass door still closed, how is the knife a threat at that time?

As usual, credit to The Pearl for his analysis. Also, many good comments from VinylOne, Gameface, and Stickler.

 

[One Brow]

I've had cops tell me that a big dog is better than a security system, but I have an acquaintance whose dog was killed before the burglars broke in.

I'm lucky enough that we have room for indoor dogs.

 

[mellow]

I'm lucky enough that we have room for indoor dogs.

So did this guy, a big one. Didn't change things much, except that he had to call a neighbor at 5 am to watch his dog when the police took him downtown for questioning.

 

[Scat]

Here's a new twist. The dead 19 year old had an 18 year old accomplice with him that got away at the time but is now in custody. Let's see... 2 men trying to enter the house illegally. Shooting first is starting to sound better and better.

 

[default]

After skimming this thread I am losing respect for anyone who thinks the homeowner was in the wrong. The longer you hesitate, the more advantage you are giving to the criminal. The homeowner's family's safety should be more important in that situation than giving the criminal a warning to 2nd guess his inexcusable decision to commit a violent crime. Those that disagree with the homeowner are just asking to be victims themselves.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

I work with a guy who is a part-time Weber County Sherrif. We were discussing this story today, and he had a few interesting points that I don't think are public knowledge at this point. Last night he and his coworkers were briefed on the Kearns shooting and the basic details involved. Obviously, not because they are involved in the case, but I guess all local law enforcement uses situations like this as teaching tools as what was/was not done correctly.

First of all, Pearl's take on what actually is a break in seems to be incorrect:

Attempting to break in is not breaking in. I would guess the homeowner who shoots while somebody is in process of "trying" to break in vs. somebody that shoots at an intruder that had already entered the premises are two different situations.

According my coworker, once somebody has entered your fenced back yard, it's a home invasion (I believe the Kearns home in question was fenced). He said anything such as a fence, barn, deck, etc. are considered extensions of the home. If you tresspass onto one of these areas, legally it can be considered a home invasion.

He also said that the info they were given was that the home owner actually yelled to the would-be burgler telling him to stop and brandished his gun before firing. I don't know if this is the info that is making it's way to the news, so keep in mind I am just relaying what I've been told by a law enforcement official.

He said from the eyes of law enforcement (at least Weber County's take on it) is that the homeowner acted 100% within the realm of law. He said if this was their case, not only would they not seek to prosicute the home owner, he should be given a pat on the back for how he acted under duress.

 

[Qman]

Here's a new twist. The dead 19 year old had an 18 year old accomplice with him that got away at the time but is now in custody. Let's see... 2 men trying to enter the house illegally. Shooting first is starting to sound better and better.

This would be something to be very, very concerned about. If someone is breaking into your house there is a very good chance there is more than one.

 

[VINYLONE]

After skimming this thread I am losing respect for anyone who thinks the homeowner was in the wrong. The longer you hesitate, the more advantage you are giving to the criminal. The homeowner's family's safety should be more important in that situation than giving the criminal a warning to 2nd guess his inexcusable decision to commit a violent crime. Those that disagree with the homeowner are just asking to be victims themselves.

The owner was not wrong, per se, but legally he can be. There is a huge responsibility that comes with being a gun owner. It's not just buy a gun and shoot if you have to. It's knowing the laws of your state, it's knowing the particulars of self defense and knowing the your rights. Hence, my initial post of not talking to cops when they get there. Protecting your family is one thing, but the litigiousness of our society is another. No one wants to go to jail for any amount of time for protecting your family.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Um, you know rubber bullets don't feel like paintballs, right? Do you know anything, or do you just act like a jackass for the sake of entertainment? If you get shot with a rubber slug from a shotgun or even a pistol, it's gonna hurt, bruise and swell like a mother ****er.

And then what? Do you think the "victim/criminal" is going to remain on the ground crying about his oowies and ask for Motrin? Or do you think he's gonna be mad as hell, get up, pound the crap out of you and then go into the kitchen for a butcher knife to finish the job if he hasn't brought a knife or gun of his own along? So how long do you think the home owner would need to go get real bullets and load them into his gun IF/WHEN the rubber bullets failed to stop an initial attck?

Look, I think it's a real tragedy that this 19-yr old will not have a chance to maybe turn his life around. Perhaps he's that 1 in a hundred or million, or whatever the percentage is that would have stopped at this break in, or never have hurt a person during his crimes. But his boldness in attempting to enter an occupied residence is disturbing. From what we read the "victim" may have tried to gain entry earlier (the doorbell that was rung 1 1/2 hours before). In any case, the homeowner was up investigating noises. I'll bet he had turned on some lights. I doubt the house would have looked deserted. So the burglar was trying to enter a house that he, in all likelihood, should have reasonably concluded was occupied.

A tragedy that a life was lost? Yes. And perhaps the homeowner should have waited until the intruder had broken the glass to fire. If it were me, as the father of a young child in that position, I know I would have been scared. And I'm not sure at what point I would have pulled the trigger. Yell and give the "victim" warning and he has a chance to pull a weapon. So that means your first shot better be lethal. If you just wing him, he just might have pulled out his gun and be able to fire back.

 

[G-O-A-T]

I hope one of you gun toting, trigger happy, good ole boy hicks will be willing to explain to my kids why Santa wasn't able to visit our house - after he runs into one of you during one of his annual Christmas eve "home invasions"

... sure hope he wears a bullet proof vest under his red suit.