Burglar Shot Dead

[C l u t c H 385]

It doesn't make any sense to me to approach it with one mindset and never be willing to challenge it.

Are you not doing the same thing? Why are we dumb because our opinion differs? I believe (no i don't have stats but neither do you) that IF someone is breaking into my house it is more likely that it is not an accident.

Just because you've heard of somethings more than others IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE/FRIENDS etc.doesn't make it representative of reality. You really think that its more likely when homes are invaded that it's an accident?

There needs to be a perfect storm of sorts for type of thing you're worried about to happen.

1. Dumb college kid. Fairly easy to find.
2. Dumb college kid drinks.
3. Dumb college kid drinks himself retarded.
4. Dumb drunk college kid can't find his own damn house or a friend's.
5. Dumb drunk college kid can't open what he thinks is his own door.
6. Dumb drunk college kid decides best course of action is to break in.
7. Homeowner is home.
8. Homeowner wakes up.
9. Homeowner has a gun.
10. Homeowner decides to retrieve gun.
11. Homeowner can't tell who the intruder is.
12. Homeowner perceives intruder as a threat.
13. Homeowner decides best course of action is deadly force.
14. Homeowner pulls trigger.
15. Homeowner hits intruder.
16. Homeowner fatally wounds intruder.

Probably several other steps if i really wanted to waste even more time. That chain can be broken in so many ways. That's why it doesn't happen very often. What happens a LOT more is someone breaking in on purpose with bad intentions. Again, I guess I have no stats for this, just gut feeling.

 

[Archie Moses]

To answers PP's question, although it's apparent he didn't read the whole thread.

1. Make sure you know what you're shooting at. Don't shoot at a noise, shadow, etc. I think it's pretty obvious (most of the time) if it's a robber or your kid.

2. If someone enters your home, why wait for their intent? Why do you have to warn them that you're armed? They are in your ****ing home. Who knows if they are there to kill you, steal from you, rape you or your family, or kidnap you. You have every right to shoot them imo. Again, going back to what I've said time and time again, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET SHOT, DON'T GO INTO SOMEONE'S HOUSE LOOKING TO DO **** YOU SHOULDN'T. It's really that simple. It's like saying if you play with fire, you're gonna get burn. What else would you expect, a handshake?

 

[One Brow]

It's not necessarily the extra effort but the extra time. Think about it, it's 3am, you've just been woken up. You need to collect your wits. You need to open the gun safe, choose the correct weapon for what you think is the correct scenario, unlock the trigger and then go investigate the source of the noise. Oh crap, the intruder has a gun in his hand and here I stand with my rubber bullets!

Does the gun with rubber bullets need to be both in a safe and outfitted with a trigger? They're apparently so safe that ordinary burglars will shake them off routinely, practically BB guns, supposedly.

Why not take both guns with you?

Do you need to fire the real gun at someone who hasn't even opened your class door yet?

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

I'm jumping in this kinda late, but what the hell.....

I'm a decent, law-abiding citizen. The thought of trying to break into somebody's house at 3am scares the living **** outta me. Wouldn't that feeling be shared by any and all of the decent people out there who value human life? Anybody who takes the argument that somebody breaking into your home at 3am may indeed be "harmless" is a bafoon. Perhaps the 19 year old kid had no intention of hurting anybody, but what happens when **** hits the fan? If you simply try to "disable" him, what if he panics? What if he's on his 3rd strike? What if instinct kicks in and he does whatever he has to do to try and avoid being caught? In all of those scenarios, you yourself and your loved ones could end up losing their lives.


Not only that, what if you only shoot to harm and you succeed? It's not a stretch by any means to see the intruder turn around and sue the homeowner saying such force was not neccessary. In that case I wouldn't be suprised to see some sympathetic jury give the intruder everything you own. Hell, we live in a country where hot coffee will win you a lawsuit.

I don't mean to make it seem like killing somebody is no big deal, but I'd personally rather have the death of a 19 year old intruder haunt me the rest of my life as opposed to the death of some of my family members.

 

[mellow]

Why does anyone assume the intruder was only after stuff?

 

[TroutBum]

DIE THEIF!

 

[prodigal punk]

These are fair and valid questions, and unlike UL17, I will try to respond:

1- Part of being a gun owner is being responsible. That includes identifying your target. I know, I know, it's late, it's dark, etc. If my son or daughter were trying to sneak back in, I doubt they would be trying to jimmy the door open. I know this has happened before... again, very sad situation... but I have heard WAYYYYYY more times where a burglar has killed a family.

2- I am not advocating busting out my AK and spraying down the perp who is still outside my house. But I also am not going to let some guy barge in my house while I hide behind the couch to try and get the drop on him by shining a flashlight in his face. Shots can be fired in a spilt second, by BOTH homeowner and criminal. Why take that risk?

You're post comes across as passive-aggressive because you're marginalizing my position. I didn't say "hide behind the couch". That's absurd. If you have a gun, you do what Viny mentioned, you play out the scenario in your head and think of how you would react. Depending on how your house is laid out there is any number of ways you could have substantial cover, while keeping the intruder in your sights. If you have shot the gun before, as Stickler stated, you should have some time at the range and be prepared to use the weapon effectively and if the intruder is trying to jimmy open your door, there's no way he has it in his hands. If you make the warning and have your weapon trained, you will be able to get the first round off before he reaches for anything.

*in my original post I said I agreed with "Franklin and Viny", I meant Stickler and Viny.

 

[Archie Moses]

Do you need to fire the real gun at someone who hasn't even opened your class door yet?

Probably not. With that said, can you not understand how someone could be so scared someone is trying to break into their house that they fire a gun to protect their house, family, and self? Also, is there a difference if they are already in the home or if they are trying to break in? In this case, the kid removed a screen or something and was trying to enter.

 

[Archie Moses]

Why does anyone assume the intruder was only after stuff?

I don't think everyone assumes this. Many of us have said assume the worst.

 

[C l u t c H 385]

Does the gun with rubber bullets need to be both in a safe and outfitted with a trigger? They're apparently so safe that ordinary burglars will shake them off routinely, practically BB guns, supposedly.

Why not take both guns with you?

Do you need to fire the real gun at someone who hasn't even opened your class door yet?

Aren't you supposed to fire a gun with both hands? Honest question, I don't know.

 

[unluckyseventeen]

UL17, you seem to be anti-gun, which is the root to your "argument". To each their own.

I defenitely agree that you are being ignorant to think that you live in nice enough a place that it wouldn't happen to you.

How am I anti-gun? I'm not going to buy one. I've fired them, several times. They're fun. But I don't think it's necessary for me to own one for my protection, and I've never criticized anybody's right to own a gun.

 

[Archie Moses]

Why does anyone assume the intruder was only after stuff?

Here's another question. Why are people assuming that 19 year kids can't kill, rape, kidnap, or hurt others.

 

[prodigal punk]

To answers PP's question, although it's apparent he didn't read the whole thread.

1. Make sure you know what you're shooting at. Don't shoot at a noise, shadow, etc. I think it's pretty obvious (most of the time) if it's a robber or your kid.

2. If someone enters your home, why wait for their intent? Why do you have to warn them that you're armed? They are in your ****ing home. Who knows if they are there to kill you, steal from you, rape you or your family, or kidnap you. You have every right to shoot them imo. Again, going back to what I've said time and time again, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET SHOT, DON'T GO INTO SOMEONE'S HOUSE LOOKING TO DO **** YOU SHOULDN'T. It's really that simple. It's like saying if you play with fire, you're gonna get burn. What else would you expect, a handshake?

I said right off the bat I read everything up until the 4 of you had your little cat fight.

To reply: If you have time to figure out that its indeed an intruder, you have time to warn that you're armed and you will shoot. If he reaches for a weapon, pop around off center mass, just like the guy in the article said.

 

[Archie Moses]

How am I anti-gun? I'm not going to buy one. I've fired them, several times. They're fun. But I don't think it's necessary for me to own one for my protection, and I've never criticized anybody's right to own a gun.

Would you own a gun if you lived in EPA or Compton or Harlem or DC or the projects of Chicago or West Valley or Kearns?

 

[unluckyseventeen]

Are you not doing the same thing? Why are we dumb because our opinion differs? I believe (no i don't have stats but neither do you) that IF someone is breaking into my house it is more likely that it is not an accident.

Just because you've heard of somethings more than others IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE/FRIENDS etc.doesn't make it representative of reality. You really think that its more likely when homes are invaded that it's an accident?

There needs to be a perfect storm of sorts for type of thing you're worried about to happen.

1. Dumb college kid. Fairly easy to find.
2. Dumb college kid drinks.
3. Dumb college kid drinks himself retarded.
4. Dumb drunk college kid can't find his own damn house or a friend's.
5. Dumb drunk college kid can't open what he thinks is his own door.
6. Dumb drunk college kid decides best course of action is to break in.
7. Homeowner is home.
8. Homeowner wakes up.
9. Homeowner has a gun.
10. Homeowner decides to retrieve gun.
11. Homeowner can't tell who the intruder is.
12. Homeowner perceives intruder as a threat.
13. Homeowner decides best course of action is deadly force.
14. Homeowner pulls trigger.
15. Homeowner hits intruder.
16. Homeowner fatally wounds intruder.

Probably several other steps if i really wanted to waste even more time. That chain can be broken in so many ways. That's why it doesn't happen very often. What happens a LOT more is someone breaking in on purpose with bad intentions. Again, I guess I have no stats for this, just gut feeling.

It's true that it's quite a string, and neither of us have real data. But what I hear around me and what I experience is my reality. Everyone is going to perceive it differently, so I don't think that I'm wrong to jump to the conclusions that I have been based upon what I've seen, heard and experienced in my community.

 

[One Brow]

Again, I guess I have no stats for this, just gut feeling.

Gut feeling fueled by the media. Homicidal burglars get big ratings, stupid homeowners get smaller ratings.

 

[Archie Moses]

To reply: If you have time to figure out that its indeed an intruder, you have time to warn that you're armed and you will shoot. If he reaches for a weapon, pop around off center mass, just like the guy in the article said.

Why give up an advantage if you see the intruder and he doesn't see you? That's not very tactical. Eliminate the threat right away.

 

[TheDude]

Oh please... you said something like, "behind resonable coverage". So what is reasonable coverage for confronting a burglar, while keeping them in your site?

You don't think that someone can get a door open without having a gun in hand?

And if you actually read the thread, you would see that I, in fact, said how important it was to be a responsible gun owner by spending time at the range and being effective with your weapon. So, thanks for making my point....

 

[prodigal punk]

Why give up an advantage if you see the intruder and he doesn't see you? That's not very tactical. Eliminate the threat right away.

You don't. I thought I made that point clear. Here, I'll say it again:

If you make the warning and have your weapon trained, you will be able to get the first round off before he reaches for anything.

 

[One Brow]

With that said, can you not understand how someone could be so scared someone is trying to break into their house that they fire a gun to protect their house, family, and self?

Sure. that's what everyone should be trying to avoid. Firing simply because you are scared is a great way to have a tragedy.

Also, is there a difference if they are already in the home or if they are trying to break in? In this case, the kid removed a screen or something and was trying to enter.

Yes, there's a difference. When they are still outside the home, running is always the easiest option for them, they can see their escape routes. Only the truly crazy keep going. Even then, they can't rush you, because the door is still closed.