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Can Rudy beat the W's?

Z

zman1527

Well-Known Member
The Warriors are going through the playoffs like the proverbial hot knife through butter. It took an epic effort by the Cavs to beat them in one game. It is pretty clear that you are going to out-Warrior the Warriors. No one is going to be able to assemble a similar team of super talented smalls to beat them in the near future. Of course things happen, and I don't seem them winning every title for the next 5 years, but they could and they will be impossible to beat if they keep it together.

So the Jazz are about the only team going the other way. They are going big with Rudy as the key. Rudy is currently the only unique and transcendent talent we have, and the one to build around.

Can it work? Can the Jazz go big and beat the W's? What will it take? How do the Jazz counter the other team going with a 3 ball shooting big to draw Rudy out? Can they? Now I am not saying Rudy is sufficient to have a chance to win it all, and we will need many other talented players. Exum will also be key, and if he can reach his full potential he could be a big factor.

But the Jazz have put their fate in the hands of Rudy. Can it work?
 
I don't think it's really so much about going small or big or whatever. They have more talent and more star power than everyone else. That's why they are so good.

Jazz (or anyone else) go big and gs still have more talent and star power and lose.
 
fishonjazz said:
I don't think it's really so much about going small or big or whatever. They have more talent and more star power than everyone else. That's why they are so good.

Jazz (or anyone else) go big and gs still have more talent and star power and lose.
Click to expand...

So its hopeless you are saying.
 
Its not hopeless, but we have work to do. Gobert is a massive advantage for us. He is amazing at defending, rebounding and covering space. He is serviceable on offense and getting better.

To capitalize on Gobert, we have to surround him with shooters who are at least average defenders and passers. We need all 4 guys to be able to shoot to be able to occupy their defense.

Look at the Cavs - yes they have LBJ and Kyrie, but they dont play good offense. Hayward is an upgrade over any wing they have but he isnt LeBron. Hill isnt Kyrie, but he defends and passes a little better. Gobert is like Tristan Thompson but everything is massively better. When Tristan plays well, Cleveland can compete with GS. Hood and Ingles are better than JR, Shump, RJ and Korver in my opinion. JoeJ is better than Frye.

So really what it comes down to is getting another scoring asset or grooming something we have. Ideally, we add a player of influence through a combination of Favors and draft picks. Favors wouldnt see the floor against GS unless Gobert is hurt or resting. We cant afford to spend $20 per year on a bench big next year. I don't think we can afford a perennial luxury team and that would be the price to keep Hood, Hill, Favors and the main guys.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
zman1527 said:
So its hopeless you are saying.
Click to expand...
I agree with fish. It's not the style we play or the style GS plays that matters. It's the talent and how well we play.

I think the Jazz can catch up with GS if they can retain their key players, stay healthy(which would be huge), have a little more good development of their youth players and lastly probably make a trade for one more player on Gobert and hayward's level. The last one would not be needed if one of our younger players made a big jump.
 
nobody is beating a healthy W's team for the foreseeable future. It will take a major injury or major rules change.

I think they might be vulnerable to a match-up featuring a scoring big (Cousins, Davis, Towns, maybe Embiid) coupled with a pg who pressures Curry and 3-guys who can shoot threes. And that's not an easy team to assemble.

Gobert is amazing, but he is not an offensive force and may never be.
 
I believe that Gobert gives the Jazz a legitimate chance to win a championship over the duration of his tenure. I don't necessarily advocate structuring a roster in an attempt to counteract a specific team, but if GSW is somehow able to retain their roster long-term, it might be necessary.

The biggest advantage of having Gobert is that he essentially takes away the opponent's ability to score in the paint, especially in half-court. What makes GSW so difficult is that they have multiple #1 options who are elite outside of the paint. Obviously you need a roster that is reasonably close talent-wise but the style of players that you surround Gobert with will be essential.

In order to beat GSW, we need to be able to contain at least 2 of their big 4 on any given night while still mainting an effective half-court offense (slow-tempo) with at least 2 players capable of creating/facilitating (Hayward + ?). Shooting will also be key, especially at the 4, as I believe Rudy would be able to take advantage offensively with additional space in the paint.

Preferably, our starting 5 would consist of 2 good defensive guards (preferably 1 elite defensively), at least one distributor, while both are solid 3-pt shooters (with at least 1 being good/great). Hayward's all-around game & ability to create buckets is perfect for the 3. A true stretch 4 that isn't a liability on defense or the boards & is athletic enough to occasionally create would compliment Gobert well. On top of that, you would also need several speciality role-players. The most important would be to a versitale forward to (reasonably) combat Green. A 3-pt specialist/instant offense & energy guy would also be beneficial

To give an example, my ideal semi(ish)-realistic starting 5 would be Hill (preferably younger/without inj concerns/not $20M), Bradley, Hayward, Markkanen, Gobert. I know it's easier said than done, but the FO has a real opportunity to capitalize on the unique impact that Gobert has on the court. With the right personnel moves & some luck, IMO Utah is one of the few franchises that has the potential to legitimately challenge GSW over the next 5+ years (assuming the league stays it's current course).
 
karl malone said:
I believe that Gobert gives the Jazz a legitimate chance to win a championship over the duration of his tenure. I don't necessarily advocate structuring a roster in an attempt to counteract a specific team, but if GSW is somehow able to retain their roster long-term, it might be necessary.

The biggest advantage of having Gobert is that he essentially takes away the opponent's ability to score in the paint, especially in half-court. What makes GSW so difficult is that they have multiple #1 options who are elite outside of the paint. Obviously you need a roster that is reasonably close talent-wise but the style of players that you surround Gobert with will be essential.

In order to beat GSW, we need to be able to contain at least 2 of their big 4 on any given night while still mainting an effective half-court offense (slow-tempo) with at least 2 players capable of creating/facilitating (Hayward + ?). Shooting will also be key, especially at the 4, as I believe Rudy would be able to take advantage offensively with additional space in the paint.

Preferably, our starting 5 would consist of 2 good defensive guards (preferably 1 elite defensively), at least one distributor, while both are solid 3-pt shooters (with at least 1 being good/great). Hayward's all-around game & ability to create buckets is perfect for the 3. A true stretch 4 that isn't a liability on defense or the boards & is athletic enough to occasionally create would compliment Gobert well. On top of that, you would also need several speciality role-players. The most important would be to a versitale forward to (reasonably) combat Green. A 3-pt specialist/instant offense & energy guy would also be beneficial

To give an example, my ideal semi(ish)-realistic starting 5 would be Hill (preferably younger/without inj concerns/not $20M), Bradley, Hayward, Markkanen, Gobert. I know it's easier said than done, but the FO has a real opportunity to capitalize on the unique impact that Gobert has on the court. With the right personnel moves & some luck, IMO Utah is one of the few franchises that has the potential to legitimately challenge GSW over the next 5+ years (assuming the league stays it's current course).
Click to expand...

That example of a team would get killed by the W's.
Try a wee harder.
 
Mason
Hill
Hayward
Gallinari
Gobert

that's my line up on 2k next season
 
Also, barring drastic changes to the elite team(s), i think it's essential that we aim to peak in 2/3 years as opposed to "going for it" over the next year or 2.
 
Dr. Jones said:
That example of a team would get killed by the W's.
Try a wee harder.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that would be the case 2/3 years from now (assuming Markkanen develops & Bradley/Hayward/Gobert maintain/improve). We would likely need a higher-end 5th starter than Hill, I was just giving an example of the style of PG that I see as a good fit for that hypothetical line-up (while trying to keep it reasonable).

I can't think of any other (somewhat) realistic potential line-ups that would give us a significantly better chance at beating GSW, now or down the road, than the one I presented. I'm curious to hear what your approach would be.
 
karl malone said:
I don't believe that would be the case 2/3 years from now (assuming Markkanen develops & Bradley/Hayward/Gobert maintain/improve). We would likely need a higher-end 5th starter than Hill, I was just giving an example of the style of PG that I see as a good fit for that hypothetical line-up (while trying to keep it reasonable).

I can't think of any other (somewhat) realistic potential line-ups that would give us a significantly better chance at beating GSW, now or down the road, than the one I presented. I'm curious to hear what your approach would be.
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Yeah, hopefully my two combined posts were clear that "for a couple years" it is hopeless. A young super talented team vs. and aging team with soon-to-be major cap issues is a different story.
 
Dr. Jones said:
Yeah, hopefully my two combined posts were clear that "for a couple years" it is hopeless. A young super talented team vs. and aging team with soon-to-be major cap issues is a different story.
Click to expand...

Didn't see your initial post, sounds like we're on the same page.
 
zman1527 said:
So its hopeless you are saying.
Click to expand...
Pretty much for the time being.
We don't know how long they will stay together though. We don't know if they will get injured. They will obviously get older. Some other team might get 4 stars the equivalent of the warriors.

So it's not hopeless forever.
 
rare144 said:
Mason
Hill
Hayward
Gallinari
Gobert

that's my line up on 2k next season
Click to expand...
Nice lineup.
Warriors probably sweep that lineup or maybe lose 1 game though.
 
Let's put it this way..

Who wins vs this team and the W's?

Pee drinker
Paul George
Hayward
Anthony Davis
Gobert
 
Dr. Jones said:
Let's put it this way..

Who wins vs this team and the W's?

Pee drinker
Paul George
Hayward
Anthony Davis
Gobert
Click to expand...

In that match I take the team you listed.
Curry vs Paul is close. I think I give curry the edge but Paul experience, defense, toughness, and ability to run an offense would give curry trouble.
Paul george > thompson
Hayward << durant
Davis > draymond. I love Davis in that matchup and was tempted to give him 2 >'s
Gobert >>> za za

I take the Gobert's in 6 over the whoreriors
 
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