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Can we start to discern an Ainge/Hardy style now that the roster is reduced?

I

idiot

Well-Known Member
Tony Jones speculated that positional length may have been the deciding factor for Butler.

And it seems (was it per Locke? ... I can't remember) that the Jazz have been especially emphasizing wings who can (at least theoretically) break the paint: Markkanen has been given pretty free reign when part of a 3-big lineup; TNT, NAW as lead backups (rather than Agbaji, Simone).

So rather than being pick-and-roll heavy with one or two lead guard handlers as under Quin, it looks like Hardy wants to involve the wings more and have more equal-opportunity paint-breaking to get the passing going.

But there are many of you who are much better at breaking down schemes than I am. What are you seeing so far?
 
It does appear that the Jazz like size/length and switchability on defense. On offense, I think they'd like to play 5-out if they can. From there they can run some simple hand-offs to draw a switch and then attack one-on-one using the driving lanes. The problem is that the Jazz don't have enough cohesive offensive talent to actually achieve much. So far their best offensive actions have been Kessler rolling down the lane or Markkanen working from the mid-post. It's a pretty mixed bag on the offensive side, basically letting anyone who can do something positive do whatever they can do.
 
The cuts were two throw ins: Lee and Johnson, and two guys the Jazz didn't think have talent: Butler and Zeller. I'm scratching my head now as to why Zeller was even signed. Neither he nor Johnson had a legitimate shot at making the team. Both played well in the only preseason game the Jazz won. I thought Butler saved his hide after a bad summer league but DA saw it differently.
 
I don’t want to read too much into it. @campaignist who was one of two to actually predict the three dispatched players, based his decision on the fact that they were the ones owed the least. Very credible argument strengthened by his correct prediction.

That doesn’t take away from the fact that Hardy has a different coaching philosophy than Snyder did and a different mandate which entails the emphasis on development as opposed to winning. Some don’t believe that guys like Doke and Bolmaro have the stuff necessary to be a part of the final product but I say “never say never”. One way or another they fit the profile and the timeline and filled positions of need at this time. Anyway, Hardy does value ball movement and as distributors I think both Bolmaro and NAW trump Butler in that regard.

Gay is old and makes too much money, but he did prove in that final game that he can still play and maybe still be a cog in that initial developmental prototype that Hardy is putting together. Johnson was amazing defensively but not known for his offensive skills.

Unlike a lot of folks I don’t think it is management’s intention to lose intentionally. Obviously we will lose a lot of games on the basis of being a rag tag bunch of cast-offs. However, first time coach Will Hardy has probably noted ostensibly fine coaches such as Brett Brown fall by the wayside in their prime because they were used as dupes in a lottery fixing scheme and then labeled as “losers” based on winning performance. So I see this as a very short “tank” based on what we can build this season. Anyway it’s a bit of a polarizing topic around here and that’s all I wanted to say as it’s germane to my argument.
 
I agree with that and believe Danny when he say there is no long tanking. I think they will manage smartly the roster this year, ended bottom 4 and hope for luck at the draft. Then start to be competitive again. This team is not bad specially if you give our best player 30-35 min/ game. Whihc i hope do not happen this year as we need to loose. I will be fin with plenty of Gay, THT, NAW....
 
In a nutshell I think they might eventually want to play a 5 out style somewhat similar to the Raptors where 3-4 defensively switchable 6'-8" players are also on the floor. Raps will have 1-2 shooters such as Fred Van Vleet and/or Gary Trent Jr on the floor as well. Jazz don't really big wing size players on their roster yet but Hardy is already starting a big Olynky/Markkanen/Vandy lineup and was also throwing out an Olynky/Markk/Kessler tower lineup during the preseason.

In addition to being the 'cheapest' cut in terms of guaranteed money, Butler with his low ts% doesn't really fit the style of ball I *believe* they want to play.
 
My dear JAZZFANZ we are now on the bottom. Who knows when we will have next deep play off team. Ainge is smarty I hope he can tank and put us as 1-3 worst teams this year. Because we need first class talent. Next five years will be different interesting be patient stay humble we will win someday.
 
If Jazz get Victor W we need to come up with another nickname for another 7 ft tall French player
Please do this before Boler picks his own nickname :) :) :) :) :) :)
Maybe someone can create a new thread for this
 
jazzfan1132 said:
My dear JAZZFANZ we are now on the bottom. Who knows when we will have next deep play off team. Ainge is smarty I hope he can tank and put us as 1-3 worst teams this year. Because we need first class talent. Next five years will be different interesting be patient stay humble we will win someday.
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need for high draft picks sure, but need to develop what is here and see if they are worth keeping has to take center stage this season. I say if it does, and they are still in the bottom 4 on paper before the lottery changes the draft position , then yes, clearly they needed a top option, more than if they were somewhat decent. I am not a believer in tanking at all. I get why it is done, but fail to see the advantage if you are already going to be bad, tanking just ensures bad habits are learned by your young players already on the roster and none of them will be worth anything.
I give them a small shot at having enough injuries throughout the year that they are in the bottom 5, but if not I don't see them being bottom 5 when so many other teams are longing for a stick figure with trees for legs, and one that will probably get hurt like Chet did, all because of the similar aged skillset of Lebron James
 
slc said:
If Jazz get Victor W we need to come up with another nickname for another 7 ft tall French player
Please do this before Boler picks his own nickname :) :) :) :) :) :)
Maybe someone can create a new thread for this
Click to expand...
Jazz are not that lucky
 
NUMBERICA said:
No.
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I think we are an amorphous blob of basketball players and may be that for most of the season. Not Hardy's fault. Not Ainge's fault. Just no players to build a style upon just yet. May take a year or two to see what Hardy has and to see Ainge's plan...

cutting Butler, Lee, Zeller, Johnson tells me nothing of the long-term plan.

Pretty surprised no one traded for Johnson... someone will pick him up if they haven't already (I've been out of the looped since Friday).
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think we are an amorphous blob of basketball players and may be that for most of the season. Not Hardy's fault. Not Ainge's fault. Just no players to build a style upon just yet. May take a year or two to see what Hardy has and to see Ainge's plan...

cutting Butler, Lee, Zeller, Johnson tells me nothing of the long-term plan.

Pretty surprised no one traded for Johnson... someone will pick him up if they haven't already (I've been out of the looped since Friday).
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Agreed. And I doubt we finish in the bottom 4. Hardy will manage this team the best he can to get the most wins he can. It is what it is. All we know is that DA decided to blow up the old roster and he will piece it together as opportunities arise. Who knows what it will look like. Feels a lot less like a plan and more of an opportunistic play - though I do think there are certain kinds of players they are looking for in terms of length and ability to switch.
 
gomretat said:
<...> And I doubt we finish in the bottom 4...
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IMHO:
- Tank-49 clearly leads the way; as Ferguson-Mellochill implied, other teams (IND, SA, OKC...) would have to trick things here and there to be worst than what the Jazz naturally is
- Jazz won't play actual NBA basketball; I think there won't be a permanent "scheme" for things to flow upon it
- Hardy will develop young guys to know what he's got; he's oing to build on Markkanen/Sexton abilities, try to maximize the likes of Beasley/Vando value... things like that mostly...
 
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