The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
If I had a child that wanted to have a sex change I would try my best to encourage them to just be gay instead.
Can't Afford Sexual Reassignment?
- Thread starter Scat
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So you're saying you don't understand the issue at all? It isn't that Manning wants the ****, it's that he identifies as a woman. Just being with a man in a relationship doesn't change that. He doesn't want to be a gay man, he feels like a female trapped in a man's body.
(did I say that right? I tried.)
All that said, it isn't anyone else's responsibility to pay for his gender issues.
The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
I agree with you, I just said that as a general statement and a side note.
But you understand that if you did have a transgender child you would be completely invalidating their situation by "trying your best" to convince them to just live as a gay man/woman instead of becoming the person they are?
I admit, **** is super confusing to me because I don't have to deal with it, but homosexualtiy and transgender are not the same. You can't swap one for the other.
I think this is an issue that should never get covered by medical insurance. If he can afford it himself they should allow him to do it and transfer him to a women's facility. There's way more important and crucial medical treatments not covered/supported by the government than gender specific identity issues.
The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
If I had a 13 year old son say he likes men and is femine I would not lie and hope he would go the gay route first before he trys the tran route. Being gay is tough enough but I think transsexual is another level. Keep in mind I said try to convince, not force.
These are completely separate things. Sometimes women who were born with male genitals (for brevity, I'll say transwomen and transmen for the opposite, even though it's might be an unfair simplification, I don't know a better word) are lesbians, some are bisexual, some are asexual. Some transmen are gay, bisexual, or asexual.
Gender is about a role in society. Orientation is who you do or don't want to play with intimately. The two are separate.
How many issues are more crucial, more central to who you are than your gender? The number of people who would want SRS (which is not even all trans people, BTW) is very small, and covering this would impose a very minimal cost. At a guess, it would be less than cholesterol medications, and cover a source of much deeper pain and difficulty.
candrew
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure this is more about Manning getting out of prison than staying in prison and getting a sex change on the taxpayer's dime. I recently read that Manning is already eligible to apply for clemency based on time served. His request for clemency will most certainly be based on his "condition" and need for specialized treatment.
I think the goverment agreeing to pay for his sex change is the last thing Manning wants.
I feel even if it's a severe cases it's a luxury problem. If you can't afford to change your gender, better don't have these gender problems.
Let me start with this:
I got recently stung twice by wasps during the last month. Both times resulted in me having an infection of the connective tissue right around the puncture...
I know that defiled insects aren't that rare from my clinic visits. While me getting treatment was nearly fully covered by my health insurance I was asking my doc what I could do to prevent that from happening. You know normally not every sting means that you get that screwed. So my doc said it's probably a result of my immune system not being on top. Now I got this medication to support my immune system, which I buy out of my own wallet. It's not too cheap actually! I think that's a better purpose to avoid disease.
Then there's a lot of other of severe cases where to save money health insurances replaced original medicine with generics on the list they cover. For some people these generics won't work from side effects. Now they gotta pay the original medicine all by themselves? For example that's for asthma medication I've heard of.
Then there's a very good leukemia medicine that was taken off the market because it turned out it's efficient against multiple sclerosis. So they have to take it off in order to bring the same API on the market as a MS medicine which they can sell way higher.
Then there's regulations in orthodontia to how big a problem you need to have in order to get expenses covered by the health insurance. My brother needed therapy but failed the required standard by 2 millimetres.
I honstly don't think that a developed mental disorder which has low chance in improvement unlike depressions amongst others is something that anyone but the person himself should cover.
To me this is like: I have a small penis that causes me severe mental pain and leaves me unable to feel comfort. I really need a Ferrari by health insurance to compensate for that shortcoming.
There's way more important and relevant physical and mental health issues that are not being covered properly than discomfort of gender.
Anyone can apply for clemency at any time. I've never read anything from a transsexual that would make applying for clemency, based on being a transsexual, a sound strategic ploy; it's much more likely to make the granter of clemency more willing to keep you in prison.
candrew
Well-Known Member
Wrong....
https://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r15_130.pdf
And wrong again...
Clemency considerations can be based on (among other things) "the prisoners need for specialized treatment".
If gender identity crisis is an crippling as you yourself say it is, then this would certainly fall under the category of specialized treatment. It doesn't mean he's going to get clemency; but it's glaringly obvious that this is what the kid is shooting for.
I'm saying this upfront: your entire post was a big pile of burning stupid, for many different reasons. I'm going to detail a few of them below. If you read it, you will quite possibly get your feelings hurt. Feel free to not read it.
1) Chelsea Manning's gender is not her problem; it's who she is. Unless you mean her own existence is a problem to her. Frankly, I would not be surprised if this is what you meant.
2) Almost no one chooses to be transsexual. The reaction of the surrounding society is incredibly harsh.
1) Immune systems are delicate balances. Really active immune systems attack innocuous items (causing allergies and similar problems) and/or your own cells (causing auto-immune diseases and similar problems). Unless you have a specifically diagnosed problem, messing around with your immune system is the worst advice possible. Was this really as doctor, or is your "doc" some sort of naturopathic quack?
2) Boosting an immune system generally a myth anyhow. You're being a sucker for buying that junk.
3) If you really needed a medicine for your immune system, your insurance would cover it.
1) The only difference between a generic medicine and a patent medicine is that, for the former, the patent has expired. Usually, they are produced in the same facility by the same company using the same process, unless the medicine is so widely-prescribed that other companies can make money manufacturing it starting from scratch.
2) I don't know which medicine you've heard of, but I do know that Singulair became available as a generic drug less than a year, and switching to the generic form has saved me a lot of money, with no loss in efficacy.
3) Many types of asthma progress slowly. Mine is worse than it was five years ago, in fact about 3 years ago I switched to a stronger dose of Advair. I'm sure some people noticed a progression with their asthma at the same time they switched from Singulair to the generic. Correlation is not causation.
4) In every insurance plan I've had, you pay more for the name brand, but the insurance still covers most of it.
This could only work if there were still a patent on the leukemia medicine, so I'm assuming that, even though based on your post, it's probably a bad assumption.
1) You can make more money selling a cheap drug, because you can sell it to more people.
2) Drug companies want to keep people alive and buying drugs. They are not interested in killing off leukemia patients nor MS patients.
3) The insurance companies would never accept this, nor would the FDA. You don't want to piss either group off.
4) The patents would wear off quickly anyhow, meaning anyone could make this drug.
You've fallen for some tall tale here.
Did you tell your brother that he shouldn't have had tooth gaps in the first place? Or, are you only that uncaring and arrogant with people you don't know?
I have no idea what you are talking about. Then again, you have no idea what you are talking about, so why should I feel left out.
1) I'm so glad you got around to making fun of people with mental disabilities. They were starting to feel left out.
2) Since many insurance companies do cover things like Viagra, your own example is counter-factual.
3) Changing your body to reflect your gender is not a "Ferrari", it's an important step in being who you are.
You'll understand if I don't accept the opinions of an ignorant and gullible poster on what's important. Or, maybe you wont't.
Thank you for the link on this point.
By it's very nature, clemency requires sympathy on the part of the person/group who can grant clemency. If the Army Clemency and Parole Board were in a culture were being transsexual created sympathy, Chelsea could get her treatments while in prison. In a military where rape is routinely dismissed, do you really think being transsexual will garner you sympathy?
I know there won't be a proper way of discussing such a topic with you without you giving thought-termininating cliché, so I'ma just say it out loud: you right bro!
Just ask yourself: If he didn't come to the world as a hermaphrodite and has a DNA that clearly states he's male and his outer and inner body functions(to sum up organs, what they produce and outer appearance) are working properly I look at it as a choice. If your body develops characteristics that put you at disadvantage I'm totally agreeing on such a procedure. If he has a disability causing to produce estrogen or whatever, he should get it paid.
And as a son of a psychological psychotherapist who shows interest in that field of research I would bet money there's childhood/youth issues in his past which can be connected to his gender identity crisis.
Just ask yourself: If he didn't come to the world as a hermaphrodite and has a DNA that clearly states he's male and his outer and inner body functions(to sum up organs, what they produce and outer appearance) are working properly I look at it as a choice. If your body develops characteristics that put you at disadvantage I'm totally agreeing on such a procedure. If he has a disability causing to produce estrogen or whatever, he should get it paid.
And as a son of a psychological psychotherapist who shows interest in that field of research I would bet money there's childhood/youth issues in his past which can be connected to his gender identity crisis.
candrew
Well-Known Member
You may be right; but you never know. Considering everything that the prosecution stacked up against Manning, the Colonel who adjudicated his case was fairly lenient towards him and (rightfully) threw out the "aiding the enemy" charge which could have gotten him the death penalty.
That's silly. Of course it should be covered, as long as it's not an elective surgery. I have a big bump in my nose from getting in a fight in 9th grade, and I have the weakest chin you've ever seen. I mean, my bottom lip practically falls into my chest. But guess what, if I wanted to get my health insurance to cover either of those they'd laugh in my face because they are cosmetic and thus, elective. Now that I have said that, as I've gotten older, I've picked up a pretty horrific snoring problem. I thought it was because I was 270lbs, so I got skinny-ish and it didn't help. In fact, it kept getting worse and worse. It started affecting my sleep, and thus, my daily routines were mired in sleepiness. I went to a sleep specialist, got hooked up to this weird machine, and slept at the Dr.'s office. They found that I had sever sleep apnea caused by my weak-*** chin collapsing into my throat, and my big old nose that was deformed from that fight was also to blame. I guess there are "things" up there that humidify the air going in, etc. and they were completely and permanently swollen/pushed back to where they were worthless. Now all of a sudden it's not elective, and my health insurance is paying for me to get fixed. (not doing the chin/jaw surgery -- I read about it and it is INSANELY nasty, the recovery is horrific, and they told me there is only a 50/50 chance it will do anything)
Just like depression and homosexuality, being transgendered isn't something you wake up one day and think, "You know what, I think I want to be a girl from now on." Are there people who actually do that? I'm sure there are, but most of the time it is something that you are born with, or that you develop as you get older. The brain is an amazing machine, but even the slightest altering of certain chemicals, or lack there of, can mean severe changes in behavior, looks, mood, etc. If a person feels like they need to get SRS, then they need to go through the same steps that any other person would have to go through in order to make sure that it isn't an elective surgery. If a therapist or doctor can sign off on your condition/treatment, then it needs to be covered by your health insurance.
Just my 2 pennies.
Good write! One think striked me:
I totally agree with this. And you even pointed out, "altering of certain chemicals". I mean this doesn't happen normally, but if it happens it's a legit reason to undergo such a procedure if you find a biological reason for this to happen.
This is from the article which states Chelsea's problem as one of psychological nature. I totally agree she's eligible to receive the mentioned treatments in the article, but I do not think that supporting a hormon treatment is the right way to deal with struggles of that nature as mentioned in my last statement and thus expenses should be covered by the patient the same way cosmetic surgeries for transgender cases should be a private investment.
I'll definately ask my dad what he thinks about transgender cases from a scientific standpoint next time I give him a call. I am also interested to get to know more about that topic.
Edit: The thing with your snoring sucks. I have a broken nose myself since I slipped with both hands loaded as a kid. While I don't believe I'm snoring other than when I catch a chill every now and then and don't really have the impression my sleep lacks quality, it lowers my performance in sports. I basically cannot breathe through my nose when I'm running. I also gathered intel about a nose correction, but came to the same conclusion you did. The risks are way too high with current surgical procedures.