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Chad Ford's Mock Draft 8.0: Jazz take Vonleh at #5

JAZZGASM said:
Best case, you have a longer Shawn Marion. If that happens, and he learns to shoot decently. Great. But Shawn Marion was an 80% FT shooter in college, Gordon shoots 45%. Yes, some college players learn to shoot better, but going from a very poor shooter to a good shooter happens rarely. Gordon has no left hand. Can't dribble well. Can't shoot well. But defends pretty well. Kenneth Faried seems more realistic. Gordon is a huge liability offensively. Why take a player with such a big hole, especially when the team already struggles on offense?

Vonleh on the other hand has the same length as Gordon but with capability on both ends of the floor. He needs better footwork, but his ability to score really well with both hands is going to translate into success in the NBA.

I don't think Gordon would be a bad pick, and he would do fine with the Jazz. I just think Vonleh has a better breadth of talent that will grow. And I think offensively he is going to be a beast.
Click to expand...

"Can't dribble"? Defends "pretty" well?

Someone has an agenda.


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Haha. I've already said I like Gordon. But I've watched the dude play. He does not have a good handle. And yes, he defends pretty well. It will be interesting to see how it translates to the NBA, but I think he will be a very good defender. If the Jazz take him, it won't be a bad choice. I just worry that his offensive deficiencies will end up being a huge liability.

Edit: He has a great "motor" too. I think that will be his biggest asset, as long as he continues to play with high energy.

Lattimer said:
"Can't dribble"? Defends "pretty" well?

Someone has an agenda.


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Click to expand...
 
JAZZGASM said:
Haha. I've already said I like Gordon. But I've watched the dude play. He does not have a good handle. And yes, he defends pretty well. It will be interesting to see how it translates to the NBA, but I think he will be a very good defender. If the Jazz take him, it won't be a bad choice. I just worry that his offensive deficiencies will end up being a huge liability.

Edit: He has a great "motor" too. I think that will be his biggest asset, as long as he continues to play with high energy.
Click to expand...

You're simply wrong about his handle. And Faried isn't a fraction of the athlete Gordon is. Gordon is a 3 Faried a classic tweener. I stand by my original statement above.


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Have you watched him play? For a wing that is going to play in the league, he does not have a good handle. Very good defender. Very good passer. Great energy/motor. Poor shooter, with bad mechanics and release point. This is his glaring weakness. I have watched him lose the ball a bunch of times over the last year. It drove me crazy. So yes, dribbling is not his biggest weakness. That would be his abysmal jump shot. And in a quick review of scouting reports, a large majority mention the dribbling issues as well.

.net: His ball-handling ability is not very good right now, and he loses significant effectiveness the more he dribbles the ball …

express: his ball-handling skills in the half-court are somewhat crude


I am definitely not just making **** up. I watched his ball control issues time and time again.

Again, I would be fine with him being drafted by the Jazz, but on the offensive side of the ball, his saving grace may be his passing ability. However, I'd be really surprised if the Jazz take him at #5. Hopefully he can improve on the offensive end.
 
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Lattimer said:
You're simply wrong about his handle. And Faried isn't a fraction of the athlete Gordon is. Gordon is a 3 Faried a classic tweener. I stand by my original statement above.


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Click to expand...

Haha. You say I have an agenda when I simply point out documented issues with a player. I would say Gordon fits in the tweener mold and most scouts have him listed as a 4 including DX and .net. You must have watched a different Gordon than the one I watched all year. The comparison to Faried is because they are both energy players that fit within two positions. Gordon is longer and a more of an athlete, but Faried is much stronger.

For Gordon to play the 3 he will need to fix his ump shot.
 
JAZZGASM said:
Haha. You say I have an agenda when I simply point out documented issues with a player. I would say Gordon fits in the tweener mold and most scouts have him listed as a 4 including DX and .net. You must have watched a different Gordon than the one I watched all year. The comparison to Faried is because they are both energy players that fit within two positions. Gordon is longer and a more of an athlete, but Faried is much stronger.

For Gordon to play the 3 he will need to fix his ump shot.
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not-sure-if-the-agenda-is-wrong-or-to-complex-for-me-thumb.jpg
 
It depends what you mean by Gordon's handle. Gordon is effective in the open court with the ball-- either to pass off the dribble or finish at the rim. He is comfortable attacking less athletic players to get in the paint and make good things happen. Gordon is not good in isolation and he isn't going to beat good wing defenders off the dribble very often. In other words, in a offensive system or with a star guard/wing Gordon would be very effective--especially if he becomes a reasonable good 3 pt shooter.

To me, if Exum is there we have to draft him. He has the potential to be a superstar. He might be a bust. Gordon and Vonleh look like really good role-playing starters.
 
JAZZGASM said:
Have you watched him play? For a wing that is going to play in the league, he does not have a good handle. Very good defender. Very good passer. Great energy/motor. Poor shooter, with bad mechanics and release point. This is his glaring weakness. I have watched him lose the ball a bunch of times over the last year. It drove me crazy. So yes, dribbling is not his biggest weakness. That would be his abysmal jump shot. And in a quick review of scouting reports, a large majority mention the dribbling issues as well.

.net: His ball-handling ability is not very good right now, and he loses significant effectiveness the more he dribbles the ball …

express: his ball-handling skills in the half-court are somewhat crude


I am definitely not just making **** up. I watched his ball control issues time and time again.

Again, I would be fine with him being drafted by the Jazz, but on the offensive side of the ball, his saving grace may be his passing ability. However, I'd be really surprised if the Jazz take him at #5. Hopefully he can improve on the offensive end.
Click to expand...

Wow, have YOU seen Aaron Gordon play? Dude started fast breaks by himself and dribbles the ball the full length multiple times a game. I don't think he could do that with a bad handle.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It's not his analysis, but he seems to have a lot of contacts around the league. Many of them blow smoke this time of year, but it is intriguing. Him and Draftexpress are probably the best in the business... unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Chad Ford's Final 2013 Mock Draft

1. Cleveland - C: Nerlens Noel - Kentucky (went 6 traded to Philadelphia)
2. Orlando - SG: Victor Oladipo - Indiana (correct pick)
3. Washington - SF: Otto Porter - Georgetown (correct pick)
4. Carolina - SG: Ben McLemore - Kansas (went 7 to Sacramento)
5. Phoenix - C: Alex Len - Maryland (correct pick)
6. New Orleans - PG: Michael Carter-Williams - Syracuse (went 11 to Philadelphia)
7. Sacramento - SG: C. J. McCollum - Lehigh (went 10 to Portland)
8. Detroit - PF: Anthony Bennett - UNLV (went 1 to Cleveland)
9. Minnesota - SG: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - Georgia (went 8 to Detroit)
10. Portland - PG: Trey Burke - Michigan (went 9 traded to Utah)
11. Philadelphia - C: Cody Zeller - Indiana (went 4 to Charlotte)
12. Oklahoma City - C: Steven Adams - Pittsburgh (correct pick)
13. Dallas - SF: Sergey Karasev - Russia (went 19 to Cleveland)
14. Utah - C: Lucas Nogueira - Brazil (went 16 traded to Atlanta)
15. Milwaukee - PG: Shane Larkin - Miami, Fl. (went 18 traded to Dallas)
16. Boston - C: Kelly Olynyck - Gonzaga (went 13 traded to Boston)
17. Atlanta - SF: Giannis Antetokounmpo - Greece (went 15 to Milwaukee)
18. Atlanta - SF: Shabazz Muhammad - UCLA (went 14 traded to Minnesota)
19. Cleveland - SF: Reggie Bullock - North Carolina (went 15 to L. A. Clippers)
20. Chicago - PF: Mason Plumlee - Duke (went 22 to Brooklyn)
21. Utah - PG: Isaiah Canaan - Murray State (went 34 to Houston)
22. Brooklyn - PG: Dennis Schroeder - Germany (went 17 to Atlanta)
23. Indiana - C: Gorgui Dieng- Louisville (went 21 traded to Minnesota)
24. New York - SG: Jamaal Franklin - San Diego State (went 41 to Memphis)
25. L. A. Clippers - SG: Tim Hardaway Jr. - Michigan (went 24 to New York)
26. Minnesota - SG: Allen Crabbe - California (went 31 traded to Portland)
27. Denver - SG: Tony Snell - New Mexico (went 20 to Chicago)
28. San Antonio - C: Rudy Gobert - France (went 27 traded to Utah)
29. Oklahoma City - SG: Ricky Ledo - Providence (went 43 traded to Dallas)
30. Phoenix - PG: Erick Green - Virginia Tech (went 46 traded to Denver)

Based on his draft last year, it's safe to say that Ford has a good idea of which players will go in the 1st round (25/30) but that his inside info really isn't all that great on which teams truly want specific players. Of course, trades can totally screw those projections up.

A. He only got 5 picks correct - Victor Oladipo, Otto Porter, Alex Len, Steven Adams and Kelly Olynyk.
B. He only really missed on Nerlens Noel, MCW, Anthony Bennett, Cody Zeller Sergey Karasev.
C. He picked 5 guys who went in the 2nd round (Isaiah Canaan, Jamaal Franklin, Allen Crabbe, Ricky Ledo and Erick Green) instead of Solomon Hill (23), Andre Roberson (26), Livio Jean-Charles (28), Archie Goodwin (29) and Nemanja Nedovic (30) - so pretty much the back end of the first round.
D. Other than that, every other pick was within 5 picks of the actual selection. So his value chart isn't off that much. . .
E. He actually did a better job than Draft Express, which only got 3 picks correct (Oladipo, Porter and Plumlee) and projected 24/30 of the first round picks - switching Canaan, Franklin, Crabbe, Jeff Withey, Tony Mitchell and Pierre Jackson instead of Hill, Snell, Roberson, Jean-Charles, Goodwin and Nedovic.
 
Last year was a weird draft without clear top guys. This year will be a lot more predicable as we get closer for the "experts".
 
Ellis269 said:
Chad Ford's Final 2013 Mock Draft

1. Cleveland - C: Nerlens Noel - Kentucky (went 6 traded to Philadelphia)
2. Orlando - SG: Victor Oladipo - Indiana (correct pick)
3. Washington - SF: Otto Porter - Georgetown (correct pick)
4. Carolina - SG: Ben McLemore - Kansas (went 7 to Sacramento)
5. Phoenix - C: Alex Len - Maryland (correct pick)
6. New Orleans - PG: Michael Carter-Williams - Syracuse (went 11 to Philadelphia)
7. Sacramento - SG: C. J. McCollum - Lehigh (went 10 to Portland)
8. Detroit - PF: Anthony Bennett - UNLV (went 1 to Cleveland)
9. Minnesota - SG: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - Georgia (went 8 to Detroit)
10. Portland - PG: Trey Burke - Michigan (went 9 traded to Utah)
11. Philadelphia - C: Cody Zeller - Indiana (went 4 to Charlotte)
12. Oklahoma City - C: Steven Adams - Pittsburgh (correct pick)
13. Dallas - SF: Sergey Karasev - Russia (went 19 to Cleveland)
14. Utah - C: Lucas Nogueira - Brazil (went 16 traded to Atlanta)
15. Milwaukee - PG: Shane Larkin - Miami, Fl. (went 18 traded to Dallas)
16. Boston - C: Kelly Olynyck - Gonzaga (went 13 traded to Boston)
17. Atlanta - SF: Giannis Antetokounmpo - Greece (went 15 to Milwaukee)
18. Atlanta - SF: Shabazz Muhammad - UCLA (went 14 traded to Minnesota)
19. Cleveland - SF: Reggie Bullock - North Carolina (went 15 to L. A. Clippers)
20. Chicago - PF: Mason Plumlee - Duke (went 22 to Brooklyn)
21. Utah - PG: Isaiah Canaan - Murray State (went 34 to Houston)
22. Brooklyn - PG: Dennis Schroeder - Germany (went 17 to Atlanta)
23. Indiana - C: Gorgui Dieng- Louisville (went 21 traded to Minnesota)
24. New York - SG: Jamaal Franklin - San Diego State (went 41 to Memphis)
25. L. A. Clippers - SG: Tim Hardaway Jr. - Michigan (went 24 to New York)
26. Minnesota - SG: Allen Crabbe - California (went 31 traded to Portland)
27. Denver - SG: Tony Snell - New Mexico (went 20 to Chicago)
28. San Antonio - C: Rudy Gobert - France (went 27 traded to Utah)
29. Oklahoma City - SG: Ricky Ledo - Providence (went 43 traded to Dallas)
30. Phoenix - PG: Erick Green - Virginia Tech (went 46 traded to Denver)

Based on his draft last year, it's safe to say that Ford has a good idea of which players will go in the 1st round (25/30) but that his inside info really isn't all that great on which teams truly want specific players. Of course, trades can totally screw those projections up.

A. He only got 5 picks correct - Victor Oladipo, Otto Porter, Alex Len, Steven Adams and Kelly Olynyk.
B. He only really missed on Nerlens Noel, MCW, Anthony Bennett, Cody Zeller Sergey Karasev.
C. He picked 5 guys who went in the 2nd round (Isaiah Canaan, Jamaal Franklin, Allen Crabbe, Ricky Ledo and Erick Green) instead of Solomon Hill (23), Andre Roberson (26), Livio Jean-Charles (28), Archie Goodwin (29) and Nemanja Nedovic (30) - so pretty much the back end of the first round.
D. Other than that, every other pick was within 5 picks of the actual selection. So his value chart isn't off that much. . .
E. He actually did a better job than Draft Express, which only got 3 picks correct (Oladipo, Porter and Plumlee) and projected 24/30 of the first round picks - switching Canaan, Franklin, Crabbe, Jeff Withey, Tony Mitchell and Pierre Jackson instead of Hill, Snell, Roberson, Jean-Charles, Goodwin and Nedovic.
Click to expand...

Now do the year before. Very interested.
 
The funny thing is you could honestly say there are 5 guys who should be the #1 pick this year. At the end of the day the factors of coaching and the roster the player ends up on has as much to do with anything for the success of most NBA players. Let's say that Michael Carter-Williams was drafted by Portland. No way he'd been the rookie of the year.
The interesting thing this year is the top 5 or 6 picks should be really the best player on bad teams(minus maybe Cleveland) I don't know if guys like Vonleh, Gordon, Exum, Wiggins will be busts, If they pan out this next season should be really entertaining.
 
Chad Ford's Final 2011 Mock Draft

1. Cleveland - Kyrie Irving (correct pick)
2. Minnesota - Derrick Williams (correct pick)
3. Utah - Enes Kanter (correct pick)
4. Cleveland - Jonas Valanciunas (went 5 to Toronto)
5. Toronto - Bismack Biyombo (went 7 traded to Charlotte)
6. Washington - Jan Vesley (correct pick)
7. Sacramento - Tristan Thompson (went 4 to Cleveland)
8. Detroit - Kawhi Leonard (went 15 traded to San Antonio)
9. Charlotte - Brandon Knight (went 8 to Detroit)
10. Milwaukee - Jimmer Fredette (correct pick traded to Sacramento)
11. Golden State - Klay Thompson (correct pick)
12. Utah - Alec Burks (correct pick)
13. Phoenix - Kemba Walker (went 9 to Charlotte)
14. Houston - Nikola Vucevic (went 16 to Philadelphia)
15. Indiana - Markieff Morris (went 13 to Phoenix)
16. Philadelphia - Jordan Hamilton (went 26 traded to Denver)
17. New York - Chris Singleton (went 18 to Washington)
18. Washington - Marcus Morris (went 14 to Houston)
19. Charlotte - Marshon Brooks (went 25 traded to Brooklyn)
20. Minnesota - Iman Shumpert (went 17 to New York)
21. Portland - Kenneth Faried (went 22 to Denver)
22. Denver - Tobias Harris (went 19 traded to Milwaukee)
23. Houston - Donatas Motiejunas (went 20 traded to Houston)
24. Oklahoma City - Kyle Singler (went 33 to Detroit)
25. Boston - Jimmy Butler (went 30 to Chicago)
26. Dallas - Nikola Mirotic (went 23 to Minnesota traded to Chicago)
27. Brooklyn - Reggie Jackson (went 24 to Oklahoma City)
28. Chicago - Justin Harper (went 32 to Cleveland)
29. San Antonio - Davis Bertans (went 42 traded to San Antonio)
30. Chicago - Nolan Smith (went 21 to Portland)

Got 27/30 guys to go in the first round right.

Got 7 picks correct, Irving, Williams, Kanter, Vesley, Fredette, Thompson, and Burks.

Only really missed on Leonard and Hamilton.

He correctly predicted two players to teams, but they went in different spots. Motiejunas to Houston at 23, went at 20. Bertans to San Antonio at 29, went at 42.

Did pretty good considering Cleveland took Thompson at #4, messing a lot of things up.
 
When I think of Vonleh in the NBA, he looks exactly like Donyell Marshall. I think that is who he becomes. Marshall was a damn fine player that rebounded like a monster and developed a legit 3 pointer after a few years in the league. When he was with the Jazz he was averaging 18 and 9, which is tremendous. It's just that with Malone, Stockton, and Horny he just seemed like empty calories. He played way too laid back and would come up small in pressure situations, especially in the playoffs. That is why he got shuffled around the league despite his great statistical averages. I think he even averaged a block a game, so he wasn't a slouch on defense. I think you can provide the numbers and performances on a semi consistant basis, but play small when your best is needed. I can't shake the feeling that Vonleh does this, especially with consideration of the others on the board at this point. If I am drafting 7 or above, I take Donyell Marshall all day long though.
 
2012 Mock Draft 10.1

1. New Orleans - Anthony Davis (correct pick)
2. Charlotte - Thomas Robinson (went 5 to Sacramento)
3. Washington - Bradley Beal (correct pick)
4. Cleveland - Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (went 2 to Charlotte)
5. Sacramento - Andre Drummond (went 9 to Detroit)
6. Portland - Damian Lillard (correct pick)
7. Golden State - Dion Waiters (went 4 to Cleveland)
8. Toronto - Harrison Barnes (went 7 to Golden State)
9. Detroit - John Henson (went 14 to Milwaukee)
10. New Orleans - Austin Rivers (correct pick)
11. Portland - Tyler Zeller (went 17 traded to Cleveland)
12. Houston - Myers Leonard (went 11 to Portland)
13. Phoenix - Jeremy Lamb (went 12 to Houston)
14. Milwaukee - Terrence Ross (went 8 to Toronto)
15. Philadelphia - Arnett Moultrie (went 27 traded to Philadelphia)
16. Houston - Moe Harkless (went 15 to Philadelphia)
17. Dallas - Terrence Jones (went 18 to Houston)
18. Houston - Kendall Marshall (went 13 to Phoenix)
19. Orlando - Marquis Teague (went 29 to Chicago)
20. Denver - Royce White (went 16 to Houston)
21. Boston - Andrew Nicholson (went 19 to Orlando)
22. Boston - Jared Sullinger (correct pick - went 21 to Boston)
23. Atlanta - Evan Fournier (went 20 to Denver)
24. Cleveland - Perry Jones III (went 28 to Oklahoma City)
25. Memphis - Tony Wroten, Jr. (correct pick)
26. Indiana - Fab Melo (went 22 to Boston)
27. Miami - Festus Ezili (went 30 to Golden State)
28. Oklahoma City - Draymond Green (went 35 to Golden State)
29. Chicago - Will Barton (went 40 to Portland)
30. Golden State - Quincy Miller (went 38 to Denver)

Actually not a bad year for him. . . he got 6 picks correct, and 27/30 for the first round. He missed on the last three, picking Draymond Green, Will Barton and Quincy Miller instead of John Jenkins (23), Jared Cunningham (24) and Miles Plumlee (26). Biggest misses were Tyler Zeller, Arnett Moultrie and Marquis Teague.
 
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