Championship Contenders Build The Front Court First!

[7StraightIsGreat]

And I think that's exactly what the Jazz are trying to do. I love that KOC didn't outsmart himself with any uneccessary wheeling-and-dealing. He stayed put at 3 and took quite possibly the best long-term prospect in the draft.

Losing Deron hurt like hell, but the fact that he has now been parlayed into Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter (and another possible lottery pick next year in a deeper draft) could reap the Jazz amazing benefits. If both of these guys even come close to hitting their potential the Jazz could have something very special in place for a very long time.

Eventually I think the Jazz may need to move a frontcourt piece to address other need areas, but as for now I would like to see them settle into a frontcourt rotation that is downright scary. Favors-Sap-Jefferson-Milsap-Kanter and even Evans are going to be a nightmare.

Aside from the frontcourt, I love the Burks pick. Love his length and his ability to get to the rim. If he eventually settles in as the SG starter and you've got Hayward starting at SF, this team is suddenly pretty long across the board. That's something that we really haven't seen from the Jazz in well, since ever I guess.

 

[orangello]

I'm happy with the draft. I am still high on Knight but considering the circumstances the Jazz did very well. We could get the PG of the future in next years draft.

 

[prodigy]

Championship contenders also usually have superstars, let's not get too ahead of ourselves, next year's draft should be exciting with a deep talent pool.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

I'm happy with the draft. I am still high on Knight but considering the circumstances the Jazz did very well. We could get the PG of the future in next years draft.

I'm still of the opinion that you don't build a true title contender around a PG and I also think a good PG is easier to come by. We'll see if that line of thinking holds up. It's seems guys like D-Will, D. Rose and John Wall are making teams think you can build around a PG and so far it has worked pretty well for the Bulls. I just like the old-school idea of having a large frontline with a rotation that can wear down opponents each and every night.

 

[cowhide]

Deron brought us Favors, Harris, Kanter, the GS pick and you could argue indirectly Burks. If DW had stayed would have the Jazz been in the lottery or had a better record. Maybe or maybe not? I know DW was hurt and didn't play all the games in NJ but I think the Jazz could have won a few more games.

If the Jazz get someone like Quincy Miller or Micheal Gilchrist or Perry Jones next year then this might be one of the top 5 greatest trades of all-time. Right now it is the best trade in Utah history.

 

[Big Kahuna]

I'm not high on knight, but the Jazz needed more bigs to contend with the lakers. I just remember one game where Milsap and boozer were trying to get a rebound and the lakers kept slapping the ball up so that their bigs could get the rebound away from them, it was like 6th graders playing against 3rd graders.
Then AJ came along and it was a bit better and now they have a good rotation of big men.

 

[The Thriller]

I'm not high on knight, but the Jazz needed more bigs to contend with the lakers. I just remember one game where Milsap and boozer were trying to get a rebound and the lakers kept slapping the ball up so that their bigs could get the rebound away from them, it was like 6th graders playing against 3rd graders.
Then AJ came along and it was a bit better and now they have a good rotation of big men.

In the WC, it's not about just the Lakers anymore.

We needed to get bigs to compete with the likes of Memphis, Portland, Dallas, SA, and OKC.

Millsap, Jefferson, and Fess just weren't good enough.

Bigs win in this league folks. Having too many bigs is far better than having too few

 

[NAOS]

Eventually I think the Jazz may need to move a frontcourt piece to address other need areas, but as for now I would like to see them settle into a frontcourt rotation that is downright scary. Favors-Sap-Jefferson-Milsap-Kanter and even Evans are going to be a nightmare.

Maybe we can trade one of our Millsaps!!!

 

[Big Kahuna]

In the WC, it's not about just the Lakers anymore.

We needed to get bigs to compete with the likes of Memphis, Portland, Dallas, SA, and OKC.

Millsap, Jefferson, and Fess just weren't good enough.

Bigs win in this league folks. Having too many bigs is far better than having too few

exactly, lakers was an example.

 

[MattMan]

Deron brought us Favors, Harris, Kanter, the GS pick and you could argue indirectly Burks. If DW had stayed would have the Jazz been in the lottery or had a better record. Maybe or maybe not? I know DW was hurt and didn't play all the games in NJ but I think the Jazz could have won a few more games.

If the Jazz get someone like Quincy Miller or Micheal Gilchrist or Perry Jones next year then this might be one of the top 5 greatest trades of all-time. Right now it is the best trade in Utah history.

Agreed! Repped!

The DWill trade is creating a ton of opportunities to actually build a contender. I agree we need an all-star, scratch that, an all-NBA type if we are to go after the title. You have to hope that Favors is the guy when paired with Kanter. It may take 2 seasons to become a contender and maybe 3-4 total before we can go for a title, but DWill created a way to get out of the mud.

 

[vj_74]

Some of you are getting too ahead of yourselves. contender? How about making the playoffs first? How about seeing how many of these lotto picks actually pan out? How about figuring out how to keep all or most of them if and when they actually pan out?
Contenders not just build their front court, they also have a superstar or two and a bunch of other playoff-hardened veterans. Jazz just have a bunch of kids on their hands right now. Baby steps.

 

[Twin Towers]

Finally KOC gets it. Or Maybe he did all along and Sloan didn't get it.

Either way I am glad we are building our front court first. I am very happy for our future. I just hope we can trade Millsap and Bell for a future point guard while maybe getting another wing player. I have been pushing for us to build our front court with REAL size for years. Just glad our philosophy has changed. Way excited for the future. Would love it if we could trade Millsap for Ty Lawson but Denver would never do it.
Maybe Millsap for Darren Collison. Pacers just got George Hill.

We gotta trade Millsap for our future. We need to open up playing time for Favors and Kanter. REAL playing time. Regularly getting over 25 minutes a night. Keeping Millsap will only hurt Favors and Kanter long term. Millsap might help a few wins next year but we have no shot at a title this coming year so why waste the future? Hopefully the Jazz feel the same.

Harris and Jefferson are perfect players for having for only 2 years.

 

[asian_roger]

"it was like 6th graders playing against 3rd graders".

That's so true it's not even funny.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

You mean like Dallas, Miami, OKC, and Chicago? Yep they're absolutely built from the front line. (yep sarcasm my iPhone doesn't have a rolly eyes smiley face)

 

[pappyman]

You mean like Dallas, Miami, OKC, and Chicago? Yep they're absolutely built from the front line. (yep sarcasm my iPhone doesn't have a rolly eyes smiley face)

Let's see, of those four teams, which won the championship: DALLAS. They have a pretty good front line (Nowitzki: 9th overall pick; Tyson Chandler: 2nd overall pick; Brendan Haywood: 20th overall pick). Anybody could win if they had two superstars (LeBron James and Dwayne Wade) and an all-star (Chris Bosh) on their team (Miami to the lay person). However, they lacked talented-enough players at their other positions (like Center), which ultimately was their downfall. OKC built their tea similarly to how we are: THROUGH THE DRAFT. They have star-caliber players at PG and SF to go along with talent everywhere else. However, their incapability to match up against the Mavs front court players was their undoing. Chicago has the league MVP at PG and good players at all other positions. However, they are built very similarly to the way that the LeBron James-era Cavs were built and look how far that got them. The recent back-to-back Champion Lakers had a dominant front court with a superstar wing player. The Spurs had a dominant front court with good to great wing players (Parker and Ginobili).

 

[vj_74]

The "good to great" wing players is where we have always had the problem.

Dallas has shown that you dont always need a dominant inside big man to win it all. And they have made it to the Finals twice in the last 5 years, so it is not a total fluke either. But you do need a couple of playmakers and some decent outside shooting and good interior defense.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I never said that a front line wasn't important. Clearly it is, or can be. The OP, however, said that championship contenders build the front court FIRST.

This year, the semifinals included 4 teams built around wing players or a point guard (Nowitski is a power forward but plays more like a small forward). Their primary players: Miami-Wade (SG), James (SF), OKC-Durant (SF), Westbrook (PG), Dallas-Nowitski (PF/SF), Terry (PG/SG), Chicago-Rose (PG) I'm not sure who the second player on Chicago is.

On all these teams, the C and PF, with exception of Bosh on Miami, are complementary players. Good to very good at times, but complementary. (Chandler and Noah are decent players but clearly not the focal point of the team.)

Sure, the Lakers and Spurs have dominant to very good front lines, but the Lakers are clearly Kobe Bryant's team, and he is the focal point for building the team, while Duncan is, or was, the focal point, but a PG and SG were the other focal points on the team and instrumental to its success. When Miami won a few years back, Shaq was key, but the team was clearly build around and for Wade, the team's biggest superstar.

In any case, I'm sure there are examples of Championship teams or contenders who built from the frontline, I never suggested there weren't, but there are enough counterexamples to demonstrate that the OP is NOT accurate. It is another lazy conventional wisdom cliche.

 

[jimmyjazz]

Some of you are getting too ahead of yourselves. contender? How about making the playoffs first? How about seeing how many of these lotto picks actually pan out? How about figuring out how to keep all or most of them if and when they actually pan out?
Contenders not just build their front court, they also have a superstar or two and a bunch of other playoff-hardened veterans. Jazz just have a bunch of kids on their hands right now. Baby steps.

Aww you make too much sense.

 

[Betzza]

I'm still of the opinion that you don't build a true title contender around a PG and I also think a good PG is easier to come by. We'll see if that line of thinking holds up. It's seems guys like D-Will, D. Rose and John Wall are making teams think you can build around a PG and so far it has worked pretty well for the Bulls. I just like the old-school idea of having a large frontline with a rotation that can wear down opponents each and every night.

Completely agree with this, i did a little research about the teams who have won the championship in the last 10 years, heres who they had playing at the point:
2011: 38 y/o Jason Kidd
2010: Derek Fisher
2009: Derek Fisher
2008: Rajon Rondo (before he got good)
2007: Tony Parker
2006: Jason Williams
2005: Tony Parker
2004: Chauncey Billups
2003: Tony Parker
2002: Fisher/Lindsey Hunter
2001: 37 y/o Ron Harper/Fisher

Of that group only Billups and Parker are all-star caliber players and they're not exactly superstars...

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

I never said that a front line wasn't important. Clearly it is, or can be. The OP, however, said that championship contenders build the front court FIRST.

This year, the semifinals included 4 teams built around wing players or a point guard (Nowitski is a power forward but plays more like a small forward). Their primary players: Miami-Wade (SG), James (SF), OKC-Durant (SF), Westbrook (PG), Dallas-Nowitski (PF/SF), Terry (PG/SG), Chicago-Rose (PG) I'm not sure who the second player on Chicago is.

On all these teams, the C and PF, with exception of Bosh on Miami, are complementary players. Good to very good at times, but complementary. (Chandler and Noah are decent players but clearly not the focal point of the team.)

Sure, the Lakers and Spurs have dominant to very good front lines, but the Lakers are clearly Kobe Bryant's team, and he is the focal point for building the team, while Duncan is, or was, the focal point, but a PG and SG were the other focal points on the team and instrumental to its success. When Miami won a few years back, Shaq was key, but the team was clearly build around and for Wade, the team's biggest superstar.

In any case, I'm sure there are examples of Championship teams or contenders who built from the frontline, I never suggested there weren't, but there are enough counterexamples to demonstrate that the OP is NOT accurate. It is another lazy conventional wisdom cliche.

In my OP I aknowledged the fact that some believe you build a contender with a PG and used D-Rose by name, among others. Whether you think my post was "accurate" or not doesn't change the fact that I strongly believe the way to build a team into a legit, long-term contender is by trying to build yourself the best frontcourt that you possibly can. Look at Betzza's post of the last 10 PG's to win a title and I think it gives some very solid evidence to back up my opinion. And of all the teams you named that were contending for the title this year, the team with the best frontcourt of the group ended up winning it all. You called me wrong, yet in a round about way actually helped me make my point. Thank you.

And for those saying some of us are getting ahead of ourselves: Im not declaring that the Utah Jazz are now a contender. I'm simply voicing my approval of the Kanter pick because I think it was the right way to go. From the day D-Will was traded I came on here and said that if the Jazz are going to truly rebuild into a title contender I would like to see them build it around the frontcourt.

There is more than one way to build a title contender, I just happen to believe the most effective way to do this is with big men (if you can get them).