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Circumcision ?

AKMVP said:
Theoretical question - just what if you will fall in love and marry a Sikh girl and she would be against it because of her religion? Would you compromise?
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He probably would. Circumcision is not an Islamic law. It's a tradition.
 
The Blue Elephant said:
Doctors never universally recommend anything. Even exercise cannot be universally recommended because it is bad for people with a variety of different conditions. "Newborns are better of circumcised." Fair enough....
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Pap smear? Colonoscopy? Mammogram? There are routine procedures.
 
The Blue Elephant said:
If you knew anything about medicine you would know that there are situations that the things you mentioned shouldn't be performed under. I don't have the time or the crayons to educate you.
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Since you have devolved into ad hominem attacks I will consider the discussion over.
 
AKMVP said:
But aren't you forcing it upon your kid? Why not wait until he is 18 and let him decide by himself?
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Well, I (along with the government of Canada) force lots of things onto our kids. Education, immunizations-- the list goes on. Unfortunately, society isn't purely libertarian. Of course, the line is at different spots for different people-- to me, circumcision is also one of these "freedom violations", but its something that worked for me, fits within my culture-- so I don't see it as harmful for the child. I wouldn't want him to wait until it's 18, because from many accounts I have heard it is much more painful, and has a higher chance of having complications (admittedly, I have heard this anecdotally, but I don't see it as far-fetched necessarily).

AKMVP said:
Theoretical question - just what if you will fall in love and marry a Sikh girl and she would be against it because of her religion? Would you compromise?
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Yes. As siromar said, circumcision is an Arabic tradition-- and not a tenet of Islamic faith.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Since you have devolved into ad hominem attacks I will consider the discussion over.
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Ad hominem is saying "his argument fails because he is an idiot." What I am doing is "his argument fails because of these scientific reasons, and he is an idiot for believing such things."

I suggest you read this because you and AKMVP keep repeating fallacies and obviously don't know what they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
 
dalamon said:
Well, I (along with the government of Canada) force lots of things onto our kids. Education, immunizations-- the list goes on. Unfortunately, society isn't purely libertarian. Of course, the line is at different spots for different people-- to me, circumcision is also one of these "freedom violations", but its something that worked for me, fits within my culture-- so I don't see it as harmful for the child. I wouldn't want him to wait until it's 18, because from many accounts I have heard it is much more painful, and has a higher chance of having complications (admittedly, I have heard this anecdotally, but I don't see it as far-fetched necessarily).



Yes. As siromar said, circumcision is an Arabic tradition-- and not a tenet of Islamic faith.
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If a person hadn't been circumcised at birth my guess is that very very very few would have any reason to chose to do it at 18. By doing it at birth the tradition lives on. The circumcised child will grow up and do it to their child as well. If it were a choice it would quickly disappear.
 
Gameface said:
If a person hadn't been circumcised at birth my guess is that very very very few would have any reason to chose to do it at 18. By doing it at birth the tradition lives on. The circumcised child will grow up and do it to their child as well. If it were a choice it would quickly disappear.
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You stick to guesses, I'll stick to science and fact.
 
Gameface said:
So show me the numbers of 18 year olds who decide to get circumcised. pretty big numbers?
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Newborn period is the best period for circumcision as it has the most benefits. Look at circumcision rates in South Korea as an example adopting circumcision. The USA has circumcision rates increase every decade except for this last recent decade it slipped slightly because it increased so high and because of high rates of immigration.
 
The Blue Elephant said:
Doctors never universally recommend anything. Even exercise cannot be universally recommended because it is bad for people with a variety of different conditions. "Newborns are better of circumcised." Fair enough....
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The Blue Elephant said:
Ad hominem is saying "his argument fails because he is an idiot." What I am doing is "his argument fails because of these scientific reasons, and he is an idiot for believing such things."

I suggest you read this because you and AKMVP keep repeating fallacies and obviously don't know what they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
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I have refuted your scientific claims with scientific claims, and quotes from your own sources. You last response was to make a claim that I am too stupid to understand your argument. Contrary to your claims, your opinion is not equal to the sum of all scientific fact. In fact, the agencies you list do not recommend circumcision in all cases. Period. They don't. You last source had nearly that exact quote. You can spin it however you want but no health agency has recommended circumcision as a matter of course, even with a caveat of "except in certain situations", other than in developing countries as stated in the literature. There is a long leap from "recommended" to "overwhelming scientific evidence". You have no problem making that leap, and that's fine. You have no problem stooping to insults to "win" the argument, that's fine. You can have the last word, since convincing yourself seems to be your most fervent aim in all this. Cheers!
 
The Blue Elephant said:
Newborn period is the best period for circumcision as it has the most benefits.
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Plus it allows the circumcised person to never know what they're missing.

Surveys of women who have had both tend to prefer un-altered men. I know I can say it a million times and you won't hear it, the foreskin is a functional part of the penis. It has a purpose and it performs that purpose well. If you haven't ever had that part of your body it's sort of like a deaf person showing a blind man the benefits of sight. It's going to be hard to explain.
 
The Blue Elephant said:
You stick to guesses, I'll stick to science and fact.
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You can't just claim science and fact. In this case the scientific community is split. Furthermore you obviously do not understand the concept of what science is. Science is a way of thinking, a philosophy if you will. Science is trial and error. Science is experimentation. Science is ever changing. Science is not an amalgam of facts.

GF seems to me to be a very rational guy that I bet doesn't take a position on anything until he has heard the relevant facts. You can disagree, but you can't claim that science is on your side and that the rest of us are just kooks.
 
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heyhey said:
You can't just claim science and fact. In this case the scientific community is split. Furthermore you obviously do not understand the concept of what science is. Science is a way of thinking, a philosophy if you will. Science is trial and error. Science is experimentation. Science is ever changing. Science is not an amalgam of facts.

GF seems to me to be a very rational guy that I bet doesn't take a position on anything until he has heard the relevant facts. You can disagree, but you can't claim that science is on your side and that the rest of us are just kooks.
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You're talking to The Black Swordsman! He'll just throw a couple of opinions with a link that doesn't quite say what he thinks it says, and then spend the rest of the thread insulting you and talking about how amazing he is at science. He's been at for years, and it always plays out the exact same way. :)
 
Siro said:
You're talking to The Black Swordsman! He'll just throw a couple of opinions with a link that doesn't quite say what he thinks it says, and then spend the rest of the thread insulting you and talking about how amazing he is at science. He's been at for years, and it always plays out the exact same way. :)
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Lolas expected, keep repeating what you say over and over and provide no evidence while declaring yourself superior.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I have refuted your scientific claims with scientific claims, and quotes from your own sources. You last response was to make a claim that I am too stupid to understand your argument. Contrary to your claims, your opinion is not equal to the sum of all scientific fact. In fact, the agencies you list do not recommend circumcision in all cases. Period. They don't. You last source had nearly that exact quote. You can spin it however you want but no health agency has recommended circumcision as a matter of course, even with a caveat of "except in certain situations", other than in developing countries as stated in the literature. There is a long leap from "recommended" to "overwhelming scientific evidence". You have no problem making that leap, and that's fine. You have no problem stooping to insults to "win" the argument, that's fine. You can have the last word, since convincing yourself seems to be your most fervent aim in all this. Cheers!
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You, along with AKMVP, believe you refuted me because of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
 
The Blue Elephant said:
You, along with AKMVP, believe you refuted me because of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
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You mean like the part where you claim your opinion on the matter is equal to science and fact? Or the part where you claim "overwhelming" scientific evidence, then post links that say it isn't recommended as a routine procedure, then you claim that since routine procedures can have exceptions your opinion is again equal to scientific fact? Gotcha. You win TBS, you win. Your overwhelming religious connection to facts and science, regardless of what the words actually stated, have overwhelmed us all.
 
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