Nope. Grew up on porn an those stupid Hitchcock movies an John Wayne.
Closest thing to proving ghosts are real?
- Thread starter Beantown
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Nope. Grew up on porn an those stupid Hitchcock movies an John Wayne.
another debate, I guess. Maybe it depends on the exact terms used in the definition of life here and now versus the exact terms of life then and there.
If you believe as I guess "materialists" do, that everything of value is necessarily obtained in the here and now, I understand how you see it the way you do.
If you theorize that some things are actually more important, which are actually unattainable, or obtainable only on some lesser aspects, in the here and now, you have a sort of hope in a "better world" to come.
If you see that "better world" as the greater reality or the stage of greater relevance, it figures that without an afterlife, the things that really matter most figure out, in relation to this world, require us to choose a path in the here and now that is consistent with the obtaining the desired goals there (and then).
I've known a few people who committed suicide, apparently out of hopelessness, apparently reasoning that there was nothing that mattered at all. I reason that if there is little that matters at hand (here and now), there are things that do matter in the eternal life.
A lot of people, believing nothing about the theoretical prospects for the next life the way I do, who place the ultimate values upon things at hand in this life, come up with an entirely different value system than I do.
A brief summary of the different value system I hold would highlight the importance of persistence, principled conduct, self-reliance, freedom of choice, and love as in the kind of love Christian's talk about sometimes, the redeeming love of Christ, and the hope inherent in the resurrection.
pretty clear to me that this life is a place to develop the virtues most useful in the eternal perspective for propagating life, developing the necessary conditions for life, and living right in the long term. The idea of a temporary world where we get to make fundamental choices, essentially in a learning laboratory, on terms that test our fundamental individual values, is sometimes but rarely advanced by religions. I think I see it in some Buddhist and Confucian concepts, and in early Mormonism.
The idea that "God will wipe away all tears" after this world is a pretty compelling argument for enduring the sitch here. The idea that "what matters" is what we can take with us from here.... essential "character".... changes the whole paradigm.
pretty clear to me that this life is a place to develop the virtues most useful in the eternal perspective for propagating life, developing the necessary conditions for life, and living right in the long term. The idea of a temporary world where we get to make fundamental choices, essentially in a learning laboratory, on terms that test our fundamental individual values, is sometimes but rarely advanced by religions. I think I see it in some Buddhist and Confucian concepts, and in early Mormonism.
The idea that "God will wipe away all tears" after this world is a pretty compelling argument for enduring the sitch here. The idea that "what matters" is what we can take with us from here.... essential "character".... changes the whole paradigm.
LogGrad98
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It depends on in what way you believe in an afterlife really, or don't. If you think there is no repercussions for current actions in the afterlife then you could very well care less about what you do in this life. If you believe your actions in this life have an effect on where you end up after this life you could care very much more. But as with most things in life this is far from an absolute on any side, and there will be people all across the spectrum on this topic.
The Blue Elephant
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My grandpa who grew up in a farm said one time he was tagging along in the back of a tractor wagon and his friend was driving the tractor. It was late at night and they went to a road that was by the local graveyard. For some reason at his farms graveyard they have really big tombstones and right when the tractors lights went across his dads, my grandpas friends saw two giant glowing eyes on top of his dads tombstone reflecting back at him. He went to a panic and sped the way back home (with a bunch of equipment from the wagon falling off). Later my grandpas friend asked my grandpa if he saw his dads soul/angel/demon or w/e at the graveyard and my grandpa said it was an owl, and he saw it clearly from his angle. Even if you think you saw a ghost, you might have simply seen some reflected light or something and your imagination fills in the rest.
Sometimes I hear noises.... really loud noises....
If I'm outside and it's daylight, and I look well ahead of the sound in the direction it seems to be moving, I see planes. Well, jets. fighter types, and once I even saw a missile.
Another time it was a different kind of sound, moving slower and not having such a high pitch. I looked up and saw ten big planes about treetop level, going only about fifty miles and hour, really.
After listening to Coast to Coast about a hundred nights where the guest/expert was talking about UFOs moving in zig zag lines making impossible sharp angle turns, one night I was out after some rain showers as the sky was clearing, and I saw exactly the same thing.
It's amazing how suggestible the human mind is, how willing to believe impossible things like airplanes, missles, bombers, UFOs.
The only thing that is more amazing is how some people can listen to the news, and believe it.
If I'm outside and it's daylight, and I look well ahead of the sound in the direction it seems to be moving, I see planes. Well, jets. fighter types, and once I even saw a missile.
Another time it was a different kind of sound, moving slower and not having such a high pitch. I looked up and saw ten big planes about treetop level, going only about fifty miles and hour, really.
After listening to Coast to Coast about a hundred nights where the guest/expert was talking about UFOs moving in zig zag lines making impossible sharp angle turns, one night I was out after some rain showers as the sky was clearing, and I saw exactly the same thing.
It's amazing how suggestible the human mind is, how willing to believe impossible things like airplanes, missles, bombers, UFOs.
The only thing that is more amazing is how some people can listen to the news, and believe it.
Keefe
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Why? Because this would be your only chance at any life. Seems pretty ****ing obvious to me, and quite frankly, it's what I believe "Heaven" to be. This is our Heaven. And we get to make of it what we want. Then again, I grew up white, middle-class so it's much easier for me to have that outlook.
Well, people who aren't white or financially well-set are not so imaginatively compromised. "Heaven" for them works just fine, sometimes, as a deferred expectation.
For me, the imagined Paradise of absolute Government power to fix everything pales in comparison to the perhaps equally-imaginative, vain, or foolish hope that God will fix everything sometime, somewhere.
Frankly, I'd rather live in Hell than this world with the governments we have in place. I don't get to make of it anything I really want. Of course I speak of Hell in the same terms Brigham Young did when leading the Saints away from Nauvoo into the sunset, having been run out of town once again. To the frequent charge that the Mormons would all go to Hell, he said, in effect. "Fine. When we get there we'll run the Devil out and start irrigating. We'll do alright."
I prefer the hope of solving my own problems to the expectation that others will do it for me.
Ghosts are 100% real.
Al-O-Meter
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My wife is an actual scientist. She has a white lab coat. She works in a lab with a lot of other scientists. This is not the type of crowd that you’d think stereotypically believes in ghosts. There were a lot of highly educated people who believed her old lab was haunted.
It wasn’t just my wife who believed it. When they moved the lab from that old building to the new one 10 miles away, all of the staff agreed to never drive directly from the old building to the new one. These are scientists.
There were wings of the building people did not go to. It was a government building, and for maintenance there were only a couple county maintenance employees who would agree to go to the building. The ghosts were grabby and so many of the maintenance staff had been grabbed or had tools grabbed out of toolbelts when no one was around that most refused to step foot in the building.
Most haunted buildings have a lot of publicity because people can make money from the intrigue. This was a government building with restricted access and they very much did not want the notoriety. I was told that one of my wife’s colleagues knew a medium or person who senses ghosts. She was brought to the lab, took 2 steps into the lab, stopped dead in her tracks and said “nope” before turning around and leaving.
The building has since been bulldozed and affordable housing is being built on the spot. I can’t help but think of the plot to the old movie ‘Poltergeist’.
It wasn’t just my wife who believed it. When they moved the lab from that old building to the new one 10 miles away, all of the staff agreed to never drive directly from the old building to the new one. These are scientists.
There were wings of the building people did not go to. It was a government building, and for maintenance there were only a couple county maintenance employees who would agree to go to the building. The ghosts were grabby and so many of the maintenance staff had been grabbed or had tools grabbed out of toolbelts when no one was around that most refused to step foot in the building.
Most haunted buildings have a lot of publicity because people can make money from the intrigue. This was a government building with restricted access and they very much did not want the notoriety. I was told that one of my wife’s colleagues knew a medium or person who senses ghosts. She was brought to the lab, took 2 steps into the lab, stopped dead in her tracks and said “nope” before turning around and leaving.
The building has since been bulldozed and affordable housing is being built on the spot. I can’t help but think of the plot to the old movie ‘Poltergeist’.
Yeah man... you fell down that rabbit hole.
Luckily, the exit is just a shot or two away
LogGrad98
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