Colorado Shooting

[babe]

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

BOULDER, CO—In the hours following a violent rampage in Colorado in which a lone attacker killed 10 individuals and injured several others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Monday that there was no way to prevent the...

www.theonion.com

Where the present administration declares homegrown terrorism their number one threat.

Of course we can stop this, but it will not be by the methods of political suppression, political indoctrination, and mass media propaganda. Or gun control. That all adds up to creating dysfunctional mentalities.

More productive than political suppression, let's look at coercive modes of public education that create unaccepted "outsiders" on the personal scale, dietary and pharmaceutical practices where there is a link to mental health, sociological factors like public policies creating conditions that break up families and institutionalized poverty...... like many "liberal" big government policies do.

Double dare you. Ask questions about shooters beliefs, background, connections, friends, influencers. Do the complete profile of the shooter. Thorough investigation.

Double damn!!! This guy is from Yemen, trained by Iranian operatives, politically indoctrinated fascist/marxist, been visited by the FBI already twenty times, with an inch-thick dossier, illegal immigrant. OK ,that is a hypothesis so far. prove me wrong.

Funny how this all stopped the year of Covid when the media was focused on dislodging Trump. Even though people were more torqued mentally, generally. But slap a gun bill on the table in Congress, and we get one of these every day, with a full court media press.

I don't recall any secular humanism textbooks my kids had to read. What part of the curriculum is secular humanism taught in?

There is no textbook where secular humanism is objectively analyzed and discussed. A glaring insufficiency in public education. But it is inherent in our late 20th, 21st and so far 22nd century culture. It began in the US with classical education rising above religious education, then the idea of having no State Religion federally. Within a few decades most individual states more or less moved that way, with the rise of Science posited vis a vis Religion.

Obviously, the Constitution did not keep up with good idea of restraining the Government from pushing state-sanctioned beliefs. Even state-sanctioned "Science" is a bad idea.

 

[babe]

Home Ec

You got me there.

Even I have to admit that good cooking fits the definition of secular humanism.

 

[babe]

All right folks.

I am giving up. No more ideological Molotov cocktails from me on this thread.

Did I do any good like actually slow down anyone just enough for a second thought?

Carry on.

 

[fishonjazz]

Could be wrong but l believe Canada has more guns per capita than the US. Or at least a comparable number.

I don't even need to look this up to know it's wrong.


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[babe]

You're pretty wrong. The US is number 1 (of course) in guns per capita. #2 is the Falkland Islands (remember them?) with just over half as many as we do. Canada is way down below 1/3.

Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I found that link too. Then I looked at the military guns. US has a few million more than China. 39M-34M if you care to believe that. Means China's 100M-man "army" of unmarried aging men, if they marched on the US from their docks near LA, would begin with one gun per 3 soldiers. Our forces would all have one at least. Less than 200k troops stationed in CA.
So lets say all the Chinese container ships were stuffs with men,oh 50 per container. They could unload 100k soldiers at San Pedro inside an hour. I'm counting say five container ships in process unloading ,each with 2000 containers. And maybe over 100,000 already deployed falsely as immigrants.

ya gotta do some math.

The Chinese do math like this.

bad math. It makes inscrutable Chinese generals furrow their brows.

Even if Obama's commie generals who run our military, and Obama's commie "intelligence" staffers all showed up with bouquets of flowers, there are still hundreds of millions of American guns in American hands, and every mile of the Chinese drive would be contested from oh one house on every street, one RV about every mile of road.

I think Xi would rather hand over some special cash to Biden or McConnell, and just let them strut around in goofy garb with medals and glory.

Their marching orders, beyond all question, are to go get those damn American guns.

you know, this is all nonsense because, as every reader of Foreign Affairs knows already, The New World Order is the multilateral scheme where we trust China to be the top dog, surrounded by India, Japan, South Korea, and Viet Nam. A sort of containment vessel that outnumbers China about 2 to 1 if you include the Philippines, Taiwan, and Indonesia, and is militarily superior still if you include the United States via existing treaties. And China has a population implosion coming, where all those extra men are dying off childless. It's a short term "use them before you lose them" equation for China. The United States is likely to surpass China in population inside 40 years. And we have all these immigrant kids who will be given guns if need be.

Modern US slave trade being pushed by Pelosi and Biden and billionaires who want underthetable labor. We make them work for nothing, put them on the guvmint dole for benefits paid by taxpayers. Then, we have soldiers, too, when we need them. Cannon fodder.

ya know, our movers and shakers got this all figured good.

This weeks article on how Britain has gotta accept becoming a mid-level power is a bit concerning. The British Commonwealth includes Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Not sure about the Falklands. I think it's still Brit and bristling with guns.

The really serious question here is how North Korea has 17M military guns, half as many as the US.

 

[babe]

I don't even need to look this up to know it's wrong.


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It was fun looking it up.

 

[bigb]

This is a fair question, my wife and I do everything but run for local office. We attend group meetings that support sensible gun legislation, we donate hundreds annually to candidates and groups that support sensible gun legislation, we call and email our local officials probably at least once a quarter, and we have yet to miss a single caucus and election in our married life (we've been married for 6 years). Since my wife and I are very pro-life and believe that being pro-life entails much more than forcing a woman to give birth, we are very active with the group, "Moms Demand Action." Enter this link to learn more about them and the sensible gun reforms they've successfully helped lobby for.

Unfortunately, since we live in Utah and in Utah's 4th congressional district, our ability to really change anything is extremely limited due to the Senate structure and the way Utah allows gerrymandering. You see, Utah provides just as many Senate candidates as California, despite California having nearly 10x the population. And unlike California which has outlawed gerrymandering and has an independent commission that draws the congressional maps, Utah's own legislature controlled by Republicans draws up the maps. So as you can see below, the 4th is gerrymandered like ****. I mean, you tell me why people in West Valley City should be packed into a district with people from Fountain Green?

View attachment 10515

I’m glad to “hear” it.

And I agree with you about the gerrymandering.


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[bigb]

Although those guns are similar functionally one of those guns makes gun nuts wet in their vaginas and gives them fever dreams of killing a bunch of bad guys (or libs) and the other one is used sometimes by hunters.
Are those two guns the same price? If not, why arent they the same price? Why do people love to show off one of those two guns but not the other one? When there are shootings how come we never see the first gun being used? Why do we always see militia types carrying the second gun around rather than the first?

Although those guns are similar one of them is treated much differently and perceived much differently than the other which does matter imo.


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I own one of each and I can honestly tell you the touching, holding, or firing the second one does not make me “wet my vagina” or “have fever dreams of killing bad guys”. While I don’t consider myself a “gun nut”, I think a lot of people would. I currently own 6 different firearms and I have a total of approximately 4000-5000 rounds of ammo. Does that make me a gun nut?
I do agree with you that the second is treated and perceived much differently than the first.


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[bigb]

Are firearms (both the small ones and assault-rifle look-a-likes) so cheap in USA, that even those who work with minimum wage can afford them?
Does anybody know somebody who would buy a good looking/working expensive firearm instead of going to similarly priced vacation or something similar?

The two that Gameface chose to highlight would not be priced similarly at all. The first could be had right now for around $250. That’s a basic gun, with no accessories added on or anything like that. The second, with all those accessories, would cost around $1000.00.


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[bigb]

I absolutely agree that something needs to change with our current climate/system/attitude. I don’t know what that is. I don’t think banning “assault rifles” is the answer. I would like to see a ban on private gun sales (not that it would actually stop a lot of people) or require all sales be done with a background check. I think a psychiatrist/psychologist/sociologist/therapist that is treating someone having violent thoughts should be able (maybe required) to have that patients name out on a “no sell” list. Limiting ammo purchases or magazine capacity won’t do much, IMO.


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[The Thriller]

I’m interested in how red Flag laws might work and if they might have a significant impact on these events? The Parkland and Sandy Hook shooters as I remember, had issues and should have never been able to legally purchase guns. I know the Sandy Hook guy had access to his mother’s guns so that’s dicey. And I don’t remember how the Parkland shooter got access to his guns.

 

[Gameface]

I worry that "red flag" laws might deter people from seeking treatment that they need.

I honestly think the first order of business is to make standard "rules of engagement" laws that help to clarify what is and is not okay to do when you're carrying a firearm. There's a lot a gray area and I want to get into the details using specific cases but I'm not up for it right now. This is a subject where there should ideally be zero gray area and every incident where a gun is drawn and/or fired in "self defense" should be relatively straight forward in determining if it was legally justified or not.

I think we're lost in regard to "assault rifles" and mass shootings. I don't think there is any realistic way to make a meaningful difference in the short term. I think there needs to be a culture shift within the gun rights community leaning more towards emphasizing responsibility and disciplined gun ownership and use vs the "moar freedumb" mentality that currently dominates.

 

[lauriandres]

I own one of each and I can honestly tell you the touching, holding, or firing the second one does not make me “wet my vagina” or “have fever dreams of killing bad guys”. While I don’t consider myself a “gun nut”, I think a lot of people would. I currently own 6 different firearms and I have a total of approximately 4000-5000 rounds of ammo. Does that make me a gun nut?
I do agree with you that the second is treated and perceived much differently than the first.


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IMHO as long as it is legal and kids are not suffering - it is not my business how somebody is spending their hard earned money.

6 firearms and that much of ammo - i guess from a european perspective that is sign of being a gun nut unless you are planning to be a guide in Svalbard or some other location where you need firearm against some dangerous animal.
What were the conditions that made you to choose/buy guns and ammo instead of purchasing something for wife and kids or spending that money to travel or some other hobbies? Technically i am able to afford a firearm which costs about 1000 EUR, but for the same money i would a get almost 2 longhaul roundtrip plane tickets or 10 nights in a hotel, maybe even electrical cabling overhaul in our cottage (we still have electrical cables from the soviet time). 6 firearms and that much ammo would get us a sauna , something like this:

Two rooms oval sauna + terrace - Saunasell

saunasell.com

 

[bigb]

IMHO as long as it is legal and kids are not suffering - it is not my business how somebody is spending their hard earned money.

6 firearms and that much of ammo - i guess from a european perspective that is sign of being a gun nut unless you are planning to be a guide in Svalbard or some other location where you need firearm against some dangerous animal.
What were the conditions that made you to choose/buy guns and ammo instead of purchasing something for wife and kids or spending that money to travel or some other hobbies? Technically i am able to afford a firearm which costs about 1000 EUR, but for the same money i would a get almost 2 longhaul roundtrip plane tickets or 10 nights in a hotel, maybe even electrical cabling overhaul in our cottage (we still have electrical cables from the soviet time). 6 firearms and that much ammo would get us a sauna , something like this:

Two rooms oval sauna + terrace - Saunasell

saunasell.com

My first gun (a standard .22 rifle) was bought when I was 21 years old. Next I bought a 9mm handgun and got my concealed carry permit. That was about 6 years ago, so about 15 years after my first. I wanted to protect myself and my family. Then I bought a .45 handgun. It’s more compact than the other and easier to carry with my tools, etc. at work (I only carry this when I’m in certain areas for work). I bought the AR-15 after shooting one with a friend. Fun as hell to shoot. It’s a lower end one, and I haven’t added anything or “tricked it out”. I bought a 20 gauge shotgun from my uncle when he sold his collection. He was moving and didn’t want them anymore. My oldest boy (13) loves to shoot clay pigeons with that, plus it’s light enough the kick isn’t too much for him. It’s a great upland bird gun. I’ve killed plenty of pheasants with it. My last acquisition is a long rifle, shooting the 6.5 Creedmoor. I actually won this in a raffle from one of the local wildlife conservation organizations. I’ve actually never shot it in the 2 years I’ve owned it.
The ammo has been collected over time. When I see some at a good price, I buy it. It’s been a good long while since I’ve added any, as prices are sky high right now, if you can even find anything.
I only purchase guns and ammo with my “secret stash” of money. If I do a project and get paid in cash, that goes into my secret stash. I’m not taking my paycheck and spending it on firearms. My family is well fed and taken care of. My kids all play whatever sports they want. We travel, though only to their sports tournaments as they are playing one sport or another basically year round.
Its not like I took $10,000 and dropped it all at once on this. A couple hundred here, a couple hundred there.

 

[fishonjazz]

My first gun (a standard .22 rifle) was bought when I was 21 years old. Next I bought a 9mm handgun and got my concealed carry permit. That was about 6 years ago, so about 15 years after my first. I wanted to protect myself and my family. Then I bought a .45 handgun. It’s more compact than the other and easier to carry with my tools, etc. at work (I only carry this when I’m in certain areas for work). I bought the AR-15 after shooting one with a friend. Fun as hell to shoot. It’s a lower end one, and I haven’t added anything or “tricked it out”. I bought a 20 gauge shotgun from my uncle when he sold his collection. He was moving and didn’t want them anymore. My oldest boy (13) loves to shoot clay pigeons with that, plus it’s light enough the kick isn’t too much for him. It’s a great upland bird gun. I’ve killed plenty of pheasants with it. My last acquisition is a long rifle, shooting the 6.5 Creedmoor. I actually won this in a raffle from one of the local wildlife conservation organizations. I’ve actually never shot it in the 2 years I’ve owned it.
The ammo has been collected over time. When I see some at a good price, I buy it. It’s been a good long while since I’ve added any, as prices are sky high right now, if you can even find anything.
I only purchase guns and ammo with my “secret stash” of money. If I do a project and get paid in cash, that goes into my secret stash. I’m not taking my paycheck and spending it on firearms. My family is well fed and taken care of. My kids all play whatever sports they want. We travel, though only to their sports tournaments as they are playing one sport or another basically year round.
Its not like I took $10,000 and dropped it all at once on this. A couple hundred here, a couple hundred there.

Are you still finding pheasants these days?
That was always my favorite hunt by far (and I hunted just about everything) but the last couple times I went we couldn't find any roosters and rarely even found any hens. And we have some really good bird dogs with us too. (They find grouse and chuckers with no problem)

Actually had to go to a pheasant farm and pay for some roosters. My dad and one of my brothers even drove to North Dakota to pheasant hunt because they are so scarce here now

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[JazzGal]

We would need a cultural shift to change anything in the US, and I don't see that happening any time soon. When the Sandy Hook shooting didn't change anything, it became clear to me that nothing will be done. We have a Wild West mentality and an exaggerated sense of rights.

In my own fantasy world, I would like to incorporate rules that some other countries have. Like all guns being registered (we have to with cars, why not guns). And gun safety training for anyone owning a gun (again, we have to have training to drive a car). Since most gun deaths are suicides, I also like laws where someone can put themselves on a list to not be able to purchase a gun. And those with mental health issues that include violent tendencies should also be on a list to not be able to purchase a gun (although this can be a slippery slope since not all mental health issues are the same).

And heaven knows we need to spend our money on mental health issues instead of putting everyone in prison. But honestly, I would be happy if the laws we have in place were actually enforced. That would be a start.

 

[bigb]

Are you still finding pheasants these days?
That was always my favorite hunt by far (and I hunted just about everything) but the last couple times I went we couldn't find any roosters and rarely even found any hens. And we have some really good bird dogs with us too. (They find grouse and chuckers with no problem)

Actually had to go to a pheasant farm and pay for some roosters. My dad and one of my brothers even drove to North Dakota to pheasant hunt because they are so scarce here now

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I haven’t hunted in years (way too many kids playing way too many sports) but that’s what I hear as well. The pheasant hunt is hard to come by in these parts.


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[AlaskanAssassin]

I think we're lost in regard to "assault rifles" and mass shootings. I don't think there is any realistic way to make a meaningful difference in the short term. I think there needs to be a culture shift within the gun rights community leaning more towards emphasizing responsibility and disciplined gun ownership and use vs the "moar freedumb" mentality that currently dominates.

Totally agree. With more rights comes more responsibility, right? I actually think most people (even the vast majority of gun owners) are okay with sensible restrictions on firearm ownership. I think proficiency and safety testing, along with proof that you can secure your firearms (safe or locked case), should be required before being allowed to buy a gun.

Obviously gun manufacturers and the NRA don't want to hear that.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

Careful with some of the "data" we receive about how many more mass shootings the US has than the rest of the world. I don't pretend to be an expert in this area, but studies such as the one covered by Stossel below are contested. Much of it might boil down to what is defined as a "mass shooting".

*This is not meant to be an argument that don't need to improve our laws surrounding gun ownership. *

 

[babe]

Careful with some of the "data" we receive about how many more mass shootings the US has than the rest of the world. I don't pretend to be an expert in this area, but studies such as the one covered by Stossel below are contested. Much of it might boil down to what is defined as a "mass shooting".

*This is not meant to be an argument that don't need to improve our laws surrounding gun ownership. *

I think both sides here are just damn ignoramuses.

Having been "around" a bit, I know that intense local animosities are at the root of a lot of small-time gun attacks, like on markets or water holes where a determined partisan can do his bit.

Not very many countries have the kind of mental cases we have. I also wonder how much of this boils down to a "copy-cat culture". I wish our media played it differently and did not sensationalize it or make so much of it. Maybe focus on the deranged shooter more than the gun.

Pretty hard for any simple statistical analysis to figure humans out very well.