Culture of winning or tank?
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Handlogten's Heros
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Its not a smart long term strategy to play him a ton of minutes and on b2bs... not matter if you are preserving his trade value or trying to win.
SoberasHotRod
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I'm pretty sure Hardy already talked about Conley not playing every game. I'm guessing it's just too early in to the season to start resting players. I think it's a mistake. Hopefully everyone at least gets much less minutes and the rotation is expanded.
I've thought all along this team is too good to tank and have said that since the trades. I did think we might tank but would have to trade a few more guys. I still am not sure if we want to tank or not. We might be trying to get more value for our vets before going that way or we might want to win and still have a stupid amount of picks to build with. Either seems like a solid option.
jumpin bean
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players we got in those deals were other peoples misfits, they all showed glimpses of greatness but with these teams it didnt work out so they got labeled misfits. with us Hardy and a fresh start these guys are looking like keepers . lets see if its fools gold. i think we destroyed minnesota and cleveland in these deals. making a rebuild not a tank the only option.
fishonjazz
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The jazz dumped all their vets and good players that anyone would take to roll out a bunch of young guys that no one wanted that werent allowed to compete on their previous teams because they werent good enough and rookies and draft picks. This team is supposed to be losing and are surprising EVERYONE. Zanick and ainge included.
If they wanted rebuild and have a good winning season then they could have traded away donovan, rudy, bogey, and royce (4 starters on a playoff team) for some players who were good starting level players from other teams. They literally traded away 4 starters (2 allstars) for other teams bench players, late draft pick rookies, and draft picks. Ya that indicates a teams management trying to win lots of games and avoid a top pick next season. Sure.
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Wait what?
Markkanen, Sexton, and Vanderbilt are not end of the bench scrubs. They were all starters.
Fish its a rebuild. Yes they are going to be worse than they were. Everyone is when they start a rebuild. Rebuild does not mean tank! The starting lineup of Conely, Clarkson, Laurie, Vando and KO are all starter level players. Sexton, Beasley, Gay are all guys that have multiple starts under their belt. Again it's about how you define Tank vs rebuilding.
fishonjazz
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Ya i was a bit off there. Sexton is literally the only player we acquired that played starter minutes. Maekkanen, and vanderbilt werent end of the bench scrubs but also didnt play starter minutes.
I ammended my post to say They literally traded away 4 starters (2 allstars) for other teams bench players (other than sexton) late draft pick rookies, and draft picks. Ya that indicates a teams management trying to win lots of games and avoid a top pick next season. Sure.
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Tremendous Upside
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Exactly.
I mean, for one... this guy has a body that most likely will not hold up in the NBA. That just has to be the reasonable expectation, right? I can't think of a single player with a height over 7'2'' who played starter minutes and remained free of career-altering foot, leg or back injuries.
I have no idea why people are ignoring this.
fishonjazz
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You can say they are starter level players but that only because they are on a tanking team lol.
The jazz would have traded conley if anyone wanted him. He is shooting like 28% from the field, is old and too small with a huge contract. He wouldnt be here if he had value and could be traded.
Clarkson was a 6th man the entire time with the jazz and was supposed to be the tank commander this season jacking up lots of ill advised shots.
Laurie, vando, beasely and KO havent averaged over 30 minutes per game for their careers. They have been bench level players prior to being added to a tanking team.
Sexton is a starter level player. Though he is coming off an injury and a career low minutes per game last season and might have only been included in the trade for salary matching purposes.
Gay is coming off his worst season of his career, and like conley, would have been traded if anyone actually wanted him.
The off season trades can be summarized like this:
We traded 4 starters (2 all stars) for a bunch of bench players, a starter coming off an injury who played the least minutes of his career last year, late drafted rookies, and picks. The guys we didnt trade from last year no one wanted.
Lauri Played 31 MPG last year and has always gotten starter minutes since his 2nd year in Chicago. Vando played 25 MPG last year. Thats more than he is playing with the Jazz right now. Both started every game they played last year. This team wasn't put together to win a lot of games that is true. they were put together with what they got along with draft picks for good players. So they are seeing what these players bring to the table in rebuilding the team. But also not what were are taking about. We are talking about the difference between a team rebuilding and a team that is tanking.
fishonjazz
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I guess we can use the word tank or rebuild but it all amounts to the same thing.
Jazz traded better players for worse players (some of them being nice pieces) assuming that it would make the team worse this season which would result in a better draft pick and hoping that eventually we would be a better team in the future.
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Jazz traded better players for worse players (some of them being nice pieces) assuming that it would make the team worse this season which would result in a better draft pick and hoping that eventually we would be a better team in the future.
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Engorged On Unborn Gore
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Sure, but he hasn't exactly gotten "go-to" minutes. He's been treated like a complimentary player his entire career.
Are we sure that Lauri Markkanen wasn’t the best player in either one of the major deals we did?
You can use the words tank or rebuild to mean the same thing if you want. They are 2 completely different things in my mind.
Release the Kraken
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I used the term possibility which you then conveniently translated to expectation. Use google define please, the two terms are not even remotely synonymous. My point is the same as it's always been, and that's that this tanking inclination that has become so prominent in the NBA, this Wemba-mania if you will is, as the name implies, completely irrational in nature. And only one of the reasons I call it irrational is inherent risk of injury. I mean do you really completely discount the notion that Wemby is susceptible to the same type of season ending injury that Chet Holmgren suffered in preseason? Let me just remind you that Chet Holmgren, whose body type and game has often been compared to Wembanyama, and the #2 pick in the 2022 draft, didn't even make it to opening night and according to reports will not play a single game this season.
The other reason that I call it irrational is because of the odds. When it comes to gambling on anything, particularly where it involves a significant devaluation of your product (the cost of empty seats, lost revenue on merchandise and TV revenues), odds are everything. The odds of getting Wemby for the bottom three teams is a paltry 14%, which is roughly one chance in seven. It only gets progressively worse from there. Man there's some really bad teams in the NBA falling all over themselves to be in that elite group, we better start shutting down players if we're going to get the whole 14%. in the bottom three. Does that sound good to you?
The other factor that nobody is considering is staying power. Is there anything about this kid that makes you believe that he will bust his hump and stay past his rookie contract for a small market team? He's got Kanye West written all over him. We'd be lucky to get two years of service out of him - do you think we can surround him with a team and muster a championship in that span? More likely we groom him for the bigs where he cashes in and, if he's healthy and still invested, maybe surrounds himself with enough star power like Lebron or more comparatively Kevin Durant to take a ring and laugh all the way to the bank.
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"Scoot Henderson had more of an impact for his team on winning."
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No we are not. BOOM!
I don't think we got worse compared to last year. Mitchell just wasn't really a winning player last year for us, especially in the clutch and playoffs. Conley has arguably been our best regular season player for a couple years when healthy. Gobert is elite but only on defense and certain scenarios.
But I've also always been a big fan of Markkanen and think he has big potential that's been wasted so far due to injuries and bad situations. If he can stay healthy he might prove to be just as good or better than either Mitchell or Gobert. I've been very impressed with his defensive effort so far. I also think Sexton could turn out to be pretty solid. Plus Vando has really impressed me. If he starts making threes at a decent clip we really got a steal.
We also have a million assets to improve if something pops up. We can outbid for any player in the league in a trade if we want. No one has much exept NY in a trade.
But I've also always been a big fan of Markkanen and think he has big potential that's been wasted so far due to injuries and bad situations. If he can stay healthy he might prove to be just as good or better than either Mitchell or Gobert. I've been very impressed with his defensive effort so far. I also think Sexton could turn out to be pretty solid. Plus Vando has really impressed me. If he starts making threes at a decent clip we really got a steal.
We also have a million assets to improve if something pops up. We can outbid for any player in the league in a trade if we want. No one has much exept NY in a trade.
All of this. Well said.