Game Thread Dec 14, 2023 08:00PM MT: Jazz at Trail Blazers

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yes and in the OP of that thread you say nothing about him not complying with how Hardy wants him to play, but instead you say: "Collins just makes the team worse in ways that arent even visible."

That is the most arbitrary analysis I've ever seen of why someone plays bad. And now few days later you say: "it's pretty easy to see".

Every time a fan acts like they know NBA system I cringe. I once read like 20 page long article on Bob Hurley's Motion Offense and while I understood everything I was reading when it got to stuff like "how weak side player in short corner area should react if a player dribbles in from the wing vs if the action comes from the slot" and I just realized I'm gonna stop here. There is a reason why professional coaches exist, and unless you are unemployed and aspire to be a HC you probably shouldn't try to take it all in. And there are like 100s of documented offensive system that are in multiple different trees, albeit some of the trees are not in use anymore.

Hardy has his own nuances to the motion offense he wants to run, and I'm not gonna guess how the players are supposed to operate depending on stuff like where they are at a given time or where the action is coming from.

Like I said not savvy enough to explain it, but I could feel it and a lot of other posters agreed

 

[HeatCheck]

Andy Larsen explained it very well.

Collins has the worst on/off splits on the entire team and they are apparently frustrated with his slow learning curve on both ends of the floor.

He is also 26 years old so not sure how much "development" is left for him at this point.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

If the game had only just two extra minutes, the jazz might have come all the way back and won that game. On another note, when did Simone become such a good defender, or was he always this good but we didn’t notice because of sporadic minutes and being overall bad before he all of a sudden improved out of nowhere?

 

[Domino]

Yeah, got to re-sign Simone

He’s a RFA at the end of the year so we can match any offers right?


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[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Andy Larsen explained it very well.

Collins has the worst on/off splits on the entire team and they are apparently frustrated with his slow learning curve on both ends of the floor.

He is also 26 years old so not sure how much "development" is left for him at this point.

I tried to tell all y’all’s idiots!! But noooooo you idiots thought he’d be some allstar and he’d be some kind of difference maker, but instead we got a 25million a year role player that thinks he’s a stud. Now y’all are trying to justify his trade as we need him for salary in trade for a star. The problem is the Hawks tried to do this for three years and ended up trading him for a cardboard box a homeless guy abandoned. So good luck with that. ATL raped us on that trade.

 

[framer]

Eh, the biggest problems the Jazz have are:

1. You can't really design an offense that "features" Jordan Clarkson. He's not good enough for that and he thrives the most under Chaos. He should never be a starter on a winning team without someone with gravitas like Mike Conley to moderate his touches in game.

2. The Jazz defense is ***. Some of that could be Collins. It definitely is Clarkson and, since he has been starting, Keyonte.

 

[Release the Kraken]

With the Andy Larsen article that came out yesterday, we can now pretty safely put both Clarkson and Collins on the list of top 2 reasons why we have struggled.

I've defended Collins but thats over now that I learned he hasnt played by Hardy's system on either end. Its not something you can see with an eyeball test unless you know the system, but thats what Larsen said quoting inside sources.

I’m over Clarkson and willing to include Collins for obvious reasons but is anybody really completely sold on George. Yeah he’s finally put a couple of decent performances together, but look at the stats (turnovers) and look at the W/L with him at the helm. I don’t believe he’s out of the woods yet, not by a long shot. We know what we have in Dunn. and Sexton and THT have definitely turned the corner - do not want to lose either of them now - and Christopher in the wings. Just sayin.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You can still just put Clarkson in his optimal role and have him be really good.

Should probably just go ahead and do that. Anyone we trade him to he's going to be a 6th man, not a starter.

 

[fishonjazz]

I tried to tell all y’all’s idiots!! But noooooo you idiots thought he’d be some allstar and he’d be some kind of difference maker, but instead we got a 25million a year role player that thinks he’s a stud. Now y’all are trying to justify his trade as we need him for salary in trade for a star. The problem is the Hawks tried to do this for three years and ended up trading him for a cardboard box a homeless guy abandoned. So good luck with that. ATL raped us on that trade.

So you are happy we made that trade then right? We need to get bad players to lose more correct?

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[Handlogten's Heros]

I tried to tell all y’all’s idiots!! But noooooo you idiots thought he’d be some allstar and he’d be some kind of difference maker, but instead we got a 25million a year role player that thinks he’s a stud. Now y’all are trying to justify his trade as we need him for salary in trade for a star. The problem is the Hawks tried to do this for three years and ended up trading him for a cardboard box a homeless guy abandoned. So good luck with that. ATL raped us on that trade.

I think like 50%+ of the board was against the deal at the time.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

So you are happy we made that trade then right? We need to get bad players to lose more correct?

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We would’ve lost just fine with Gay at less money, and he’s traceable for salary matching more so than dingis

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I think like 50%+ of the board was against the deal at the time.

Well at least it’s encouraging that only 50% of us are less idiotic I guess

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Well at least it’s encouraging that only 50% of us are less idiotic I guess

I really just wished we had waited them out as I think we could have got the Kings pick or they might have moved Hunter instead. Hunter is a pile of meh but you could convince me he had more to show to his game.

In the right roster I don’t think Collins is a terrible value… it’s just hard to find the right roster and we certainly aren’t it.

 

[fishonjazz]

We would’ve lost just fine with Gay at less money, and he’s traceable for salary matching more so than dingis

Ya but then we would have more money to spend and might use it on good players and win more. That would suck for you.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Ya but then we would have more money to spend and might use it on good players and win more. That would suck for you.

I bet we could’ve gotten some contracts that were shorter terms that are easier to trade or found someone else that we could trade and not be tied to one big deal we can’t trade.

 

[fishonjazz]

I bet we could’ve gotten some contracts that were shorter terms that are easier to trade or found someone else that we could trade and not be tied to one big deal we can’t trade.

But players come with contracts bro. What if those players are good players? Then we are ****ed!!!!

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[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

But players come with contracts bro. What if those players are good players? Then we are ****ed!!!!

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That’s what the trade season is for. We sign a bunch of players at different values on contracts that are more suitable to trade than Collins, for example the dude we traded for him. He’s a scrub but his contract is a fairly valuable one. So not only doe we keep the team sucky we gain assets of varying degrees. It’s not that hard… your not trolling me are you?

 

[fishonjazz]

Just a reminder that I don't think got enough mention in this game.

Kessler played 26 minutes.
He had SEVEN blocks and zero fouls in those 26 minutes.

If he played more that game he might have had a triple double.

He had 10 points and 10 rebounds in those 26 minutes. If he would have got like 10 more minutes could he have got 3 more blocks for the triple double? We will never know.

(Also had 4 assists which was nice as well)

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[fishonjazz]

Also, Ochai averages 5.7 shots per game (21 minutes)

In this game he attempted 12 shots (7-12) in 26 minutes.

Is that a season high in attempts? IDK but nice to see him more involved offensively either way

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[HermanG]

Just a reminder that I don't think got enough mention in this game.

Kessler played 26 minutes.
He had SEVEN blocks and zero fouls in those 26 minutes.

If he played more that game he might have had a triple double.

He had 10 points and 10 rebounds in those 26 minutes. If he would have got like 10 more minutes could he have got 3 more blocks for the triple double? We will never know.

(Also had 4 assists which was nice as well)

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I did notice the blocks, but I didnt notice the assists. Good stuff.