Game Thread Dec 14, 2023 08:00PM MT: Jazz at Trail Blazers

[framer]

View: https://twitter.com/utahjazz/status/1735525112538132580

 

[Elizah Huge]

Kessler with 10 points, 10 rebounds, 7 blocks and 4 assists. Safe to say he’s back and healthy now.

 

[homeytennis]

Two in a row. We on a roll!!!

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don’t care what the tape measures said at the combine… Hendricks is longer than Collins.

 

[whatthe]

Bad news the Jazz are better when they bench some of their starters. Can this be even be fixed? Trades? How's Hardy's interpersonal skills. I think we have something no average coach and organization can fix.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

We play well at home and neat tonight a very bad team. But we play well, specially Colin and Walter. Still confused where we will ended. Watch only second half as i watch watching Minny and crying Luka but seems we play strong except the garbage time.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I've said all year we're bad because of Clarkson. Our record reflects how he plays.

He was a bad trade to begin with and besides a few hot streaks he isn't a winning player and makes his teammates worse.

I like his personality but not his play at the NBA level. Unless he's a heat check off the bench. Even then I would rather a guy that keeps his teammates involved.

 

[HermanG]

I've said all year we're bad because of Clarkson. Our record reflects how he plays.

He was a bad trade to begin with and besides a few hot streaks he isn't a winning player and makes his teammates worse.

I like his personality but not his play at the NBA level. Unless he's a heat check off the bench. Even then I would rather a guy that keeps his teammates involved.

With the Andy Larsen article that came out yesterday, we can now pretty safely put both Clarkson and Collins on the list of top 2 reasons why we have struggled.

I've defended Collins but thats over now that I learned he hasnt played by Hardy's system on either end. Its not something you can see with an eyeball test unless you know the system, but thats what Larsen said quoting inside sources.

 

[Ron Mexico]

With the Andy Larsen article that came out yesterday, we can now pretty safely put both Clarkson and Collins on the list of top 2 reasons why we have struggled.

I've defended Collins but thats over now that I learned he hasnt played by Hardy's system on either end. Its not something you can see with an eyeball test unless you know the system, but thats what Larsen said quoting inside sources.

I only glanced at the article. That could be an issue. But firstly plenty of guys are slow to pick up his system. But I guess usually they don't get as many minutes. Secondly he isn't dominating the ball like Clarkson.

 

[HermanG]

I only glanced at the article. That could be an issue. But firstly plenty of guys are slow to pick up his system. But I guess usually they don't get as many minutes. Secondly he isn't dominating the ball like Clarkson.

Sure, but not being where you are supposed to be or not doing what you are supposed to do is detrimental to any team. Its like a wide receiver running the wrong route, which leads to incompletions and interceptions. You cannot overcome guys doing that.

I mean if you look at the Nuggets and why they won last year, their team playing disciplined was one of the biggest reasons. Jokic is awesome but you cannot really say they had an overwhelming talent advantage over Lakers who they swept. Heat also got into finals with inferior talent to Bucks and Celtics.

 

[Agent#00]

I don’t care what the tape measures said at the combine… Hendricks is longer than Collins.

john collins have below average wingspan relative to his height. It’s 6’11.

Hendricks wingspan is 7’2.5”. Scottie pippen is 7’3”.

 

[Ron Mexico]

If only we played Portland every game. We looked really great all around this game. Our offense was really cooking and it's not like Portland is a bad defensive team they are pretty average.

If we get Fonteccio to be an efficient player like this game we're really going to start taking off with a healthy Lauri.

The team passing overall was amazing this game lead by KO.

This was a very promising game from just about everyone on the team. I wonder how much things are paying off from Hardy pushing the team hard in practice and his difficult system. Let's see how the next few games go and if we can finally play on the road. I think we might be clicking a bit but we need to get healthy. Well maybe not everyone....

 

[fishonjazz]

Bad news the Jazz are better when they bench some of their starters. Can this be even be fixed? Trades? How's Hardy's interpersonal skills. I think we have something no average coach and organization can fix.

Sounds pretty easy to fix. Bring then starters off the bench

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[fishonjazz]

If only we played Portland every game. We looked really great all around this game. Our offense was really cooking and it's not like Portland is a bad defensive team they are pretty average.

If we get Fonteccio to be an efficient player like this game we're really going to start taking off with a healthy Lauri.

The team passing overall was amazing this game lead by KO.

This was a very promising game from just about everyone on the team. I wonder how much things are paying off from Hardy pushing the team hard in practice and his difficult system. Let's see how the next few games go and if we can finally play on the road. I think we might be clicking a bit but we need to get healthy. Well maybe not everyone....

2 just things.
1. Portland is a really good defensive team according to the announcers last night. Third best in the nba.
2. Last nights game was on the road

Have some koolaid bro


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[Saint Cy of JFC]

With the Andy Larsen article that came out yesterday, we can now pretty safely put both Clarkson and Collins on the list of top 2 reasons why we have struggled.

I've defended Collins but thats over now that I learned he hasnt played by Hardy's system on either end. Its not something you can see with an eyeball test unless you know the system, but thats what Larsen said quoting inside sources.

Uhh, it's pretty easy to see imo

 

[HermanG]

Uhh, it's pretty easy to see imo

Break down Hardys offensive and defensive systems to me and highlight how Collins isnt complying.

Should be easy for you.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Break down Hardys offensive and defensive systems to me and highlight how Collins isnt complying.

Should be easy for you.

I mean, I can't go into full on details, I'm not that savvy. But you can tell something just isn't right when he's on the court. I've literally made a thread about it.

 

[HermanG]

I mean, I can't go into full on details, I'm not that savvy. But you can tell something just isn't right when he's on the court. I've literally made a thread about it.

Yes and in the OP of that thread you say nothing about him not complying with how Hardy wants him to play, but instead you say: "Collins just makes the team worse in ways that arent even visible."

That is the most arbitrary analysis I've ever seen of why someone plays bad. And now few days later you say: "it's pretty easy to see".

Every time a fan acts like they know NBA system I cringe. I once read like 20 page long article on Bob Hurley's Motion Offense and while I understood everything I was reading when it got to stuff like "how weak side player in short corner area should react if a player dribbles in from the wing vs if the action comes from the slot" and I just realized I'm gonna stop here. There is a reason why professional coaches exist, and unless you are unemployed and aspire to be a HC you probably shouldn't try to take it all in. And there are like 100s of documented offensive system that are in multiple different trees, albeit some of the trees are not in use anymore.

Hardy has his own nuances to the motion offense he wants to run, and I'm not gonna guess how the players are supposed to operate depending on stuff like where they are at a given time or where the action is coming from.

 

[hgb]

I've defended Collins but thats over now that I learned he hasnt played by Hardy's system on either end. Its not something you can see with an eyeball test unless you know the system, but thats what Larsen said quoting inside sources.

A fairly important factor IMHO is why, though. If it's just that it's a complicated system, and it takes time, that's fine. If he's a slow learner, that's kinda fine too. If he thinks "not doing this **** all day, is boring", not fine.

 

[HermanG]

A fairly important factor IMHO is why, though. If it's just that it's a complicated system, and it takes time, that's fine. If he's a slow learner, that's kinda fine too. If he thinks "not doing this **** all day, is boring", not fine.

It is a very complicated system based on what I've heard from anyone who has studied it. But obviously he is behind the curve and there are 3 rookies in the team as well who have no prior experience of NBA systems, so there is a comparison point. And Hardy has a history of being patient (Sexton one prime example), so I don't thnk its something we can dismiss. He must have been super slow or then he is actually going rogue.

I think Atlantas system was trash though, and it DEFINITELY wasnt motion offense to begin with. So I'm not sure if its easier or harder for a player to come in from the college or come in after 6 years of being in a completely different style of system.