Donovan Mitchell Analysis - Rookie Year Clips - Mostly Just a Bunch of Questions

[Bawse Dawg]

Just something I was thinking about a bit lately. And figure I would pose it to the smarter people around here. I think we all remember Mitchell's rookie year, and how much fun it was. And looking back with rose colored glasses is absolutely a thing. I want to make this very obvious: Mitchell is a much better all around player now than he was in year 1. In case that obvious fact needed clarification.

That being said. I was remembering his rookie year, and watching him this year. And lots of things just seem different. Mainly I want to talk about how it used to feel like he could get into the paint at will and have insane finishes over, through, and in-between defenders. It happened all the time. And I remember thinking that once he learns to draw contact better he was going to become the best And-1 finisher in the game because he was just so good at making crazy layups. The clips below are games that are ingrained in my head from that season. Specifically because I know he does some spectacular drives to the hoop in each of the games. I don't even think I need to ask the 'Does Donovan still look like this when he plays?' question. I think the answer is obvious. Better questions are What exactly has changed? How much is opponent defense, and how much can Mitchell control? And what is the right balance?


The obvious analysis would be that after his rookie year (and maybe more specifically the 2018 Rockets series) teams learned how to defend his drives better. Exactly what they do differently is a question for better minds. But he gets blocked much more, and just in general seems more limited by his physical stature, and can't make up the difference with his insane athleticism. Mitchell was basically adjusting to this all of last year.

Let's look at the clips:

Game 2 vs the Thunder. Mitchell leads an incredible comeback to tie us up going back to Utah. The spin move and soft touch floater he does at the end is as incredible now as it was then.
Game 2 Thunder

Series finale vs the Thunder. My favorite Mitchell game, and quarter. Just goes absolutely crazy in the third quarter.
Game 6 Thunder

I just always remember this game because we were getting absolutely crushed at one point. And Mitchell led us back with several awesome plays.
Pelicans Game

So watching those clips. How similar does that look to the Mitchell we get on a night to night basis now? And what are the main things that have changed? Part of me thinks he has just increased his arsenal to the point where he doesn't really have a bread and butter move anymore.

What does a Mitchell 'leap' look like? How good can he get? Are his issues mainly size, decision making, opponent defense?

Open discussion. All thoughts, opinions etc welcome. I'm just bored.

 

[LoPo]

I think things look different for the following reasons:

- he's trying to be a complete player when sometimes he just needs to attack. You can almost see it on his face that's trying to make everybody happy, be a leader, cautiously attack while looking to pass to everybody and run the offense. He looks tense when as a rookie he was carefree.

- more guys need the ball for success now. Then, he could dominate the ball with no flack from anybody. What scorer was going to question that he should have the ball so much? Now, Conley, Clarkson, Bojan others need touches.

- fans expect him to do something special every single time. He set the bar pretty high. Not only did he set the bar high, many expected him to take it to the next level AND dominate while doing it.

- adjustments - NBA teams adjusted to him making it harder for him to succeed. He's gotten better, but lanes to dominate are fewer to find.

We need to appreciate and nurture what we have. We also, as a franchise, need to put more guys around him who play off him not need the ball for success. Conley is a great guy and a good player, but a stupid fit. Mitchell needs the ball in his hands on almost every possession. He still has such a bright future and he's still averaging 24+ as an All Star.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I think things look different for the following reasons:

- he's trying to be a complete player when sometimes he just needs to attack. You can almost see it on his face that's trying to make everybody happy, be a leader, cautiously attack while looking to pass to everybody and run the offense. He looks tense when as a rookie he was carefree.

- more guys need the ball for success now. Then, he could dominate the ball with no flack from anybody. What scorer was going to question that he should have the ball so much? Now, Conley, Clarkson, Bojan others need touches.

- fans expect him to do something special every single time. He set the bar pretty high. Not only did he set the bar high, many expected him to take it to the next level AND dominate while doing it.

- adjustments - NBA teams adjusted to him making it harder for him to succeed. He's gotten better, but lanes to dominate are fewer to find.

We need to appreciate and nurture what we have. We also, as a franchise, need to put more guys around him who play off him not need the ball for success. Conley is a great guy and a good player, but a stupid fit. Mitchell needs the ball in his hands on almost every possession. He still has such a bright future and he's still averaging 24+ as an All Star.

This is why he seems to be more of a second half player and scores a lot in the 4th quarter, because he mostly runs the offense and looking to score. The jazz should’ve made him the starting pg from the beginning. I remember a couple years ago when Rubio got injured and he was placed as the starting pg. he was so good and was collecting 30 point games because he wasn’t spending half the game camped in the corner. I think even Ingles takes away some of Mitchell’s effectiveness.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Well I thought it was interesting...

Okay new question: We can't pay Gobert he walks or is traded (probably fetches much less than you might be thinking btw) We go all in on Mitchell. How does a team like that become a contender? We've lost our best player and defender in the league. We are all in on the 6'1" Mitchell. How do you maximize him and the team built around him?

 

[MCarter]

This is why he seems to be more of a second half player and scores a lot in the 4th quarter, because he mostly runs the offense and looking to score. The jazz should’ve made him the starting pg from the beginning. I remember a couple years ago when Rubio got injured and he was placed as the starting pg. he was so good and was collecting 30 point games because he wasn’t spending half the game camped in the corner. I think even Ingles takes away some of Mitchell’s effectiveness.

From my understanding, I thought David Locke mentioned how Donovan truly doesn’t have that many years of BBall experience compared to his peers. With that being said, playmaking can be something that he has a greater opportunity to develop as he continues to grow in IQ. In that circumstance, I can understand the organization starting him at the 2 and then transitioning him to the full time 1 as he grows. That is what I’m hoping for at least.

 

[rjfan]

From my understanding, I thought David Locke mentioned how Donovan truly doesn’t have that many years of BBall experience compared to his peers. With that being said, playmaking can be something that he has a greater opportunity to develop as he continues to grow in IQ. In that circumstance, I can understand the organization starting him at the 2 and then transitioning him to the full time 1 as he grows. That is what I’m hoping for at least.

If anything, i believe the front office wanted not only that Conley would be someone helping team creation while Mitchell learned his way into run an offense (which is different than just have the ball at your hands to force drives into double teams, traps, and not know where and when to throw dishes), but also viewed him as a good mentorship to the pg they see Mitchell developing down the line.

 

[LoPo]

Well I thought it was interesting...

Okay new question: We can't pay Gobert he walks or is traded (probably fetches much less than you might be thinking btw) We go all in on Mitchell. How does a team like that become a contender? We've lost our best player and defender in the league. We are all in on the 6'1" Mitchell. How do you maximize him and the team built around him?

I think the answer isn't as complex as some on this forum think it is. Yes, Gobert is very good. Yes, our team wins games playing towards his strengths. We play okay perimeter defense with the idea that everything funnels into Gobert to shut down. It works. Offensively, we use his excellent screens to break down defenses and use the threat of his alley oops to have opponents back off our player with the ball.

If we didn't have Gobert, we would adapt to the current NBA. Playoff success in recent years has been about matchup flexibility. Traditional centers are phased out for guys like PJ Tucker, Draymond Green, Ibaka, Tristan Thompson, etc. Outside of Toronto playing Gasol significant minutes, not many teams are using traditional centers and rim protectors like Rudy. They exist, but not to play 24+ minutes for playoff games. Anthony Davis is the only unicorn out there who can play center, protect the rim, rebound and do everything. But we still haven't seen him perform in that role for a long playoff run.

If we lost Rudy, I would move Donovan to PG (this should probably happen regardless) and build a team loaded with perimeter defenders. If we can't funnel them to Rudy, then we need to play playoff basketball which is switching and staying in front of your opponent. Donovan and Bojan need to be the worst defenders in the primary lineup. I love what Royce and Ingles bring, but we would need two more guys who are of that quality or better. Guys who can defend well and can hit the open 3. Can we find the next Bruce Bowen or Andre Iguodala? We need that type guy added to the lineup. Easier said than done. I would be happy if we could find another Royce/Ingles type guy.

In a perfect world, we trade Rudy to Boston for Jaylen Brown. From there, we get a couple quality centers who can rotate throughout the season with Bradley. We need for at least one center to be an adequate threat from 3. We would have flexibility at SG, SF and PF so positions are kind of a moot point. The roster would consist of:

Donovan
Brown
Royce
Bojan
Ingles
6th man Clarkson
Bowen/Iggy/Royce/Ingles wing defender addition
Center by committee (Bradley, Favors?, Baynes?)

It's not perfect, but it's not the end of the world. Nothing is really. It would be mighty stupid of us to lose Gobert for nothing. The next stupid thing would be to sign him to super max or close because we are afraid of any kind of alternative.

Overall, we probably take a small step back in terms of regular season record. Come playoff time, I think we would be feared.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

I think the answer isn't as complex as some on this forum think it is. Yes, Gobert is very good. Yes, our team wins games playing towards his strengths. We play okay perimeter defense with the idea that everything funnels into Gobert to shut down. It works. Offensively, we use his excellent screens to break down defenses and use the threat of his alley oops to have opponents back off our player with the ball.

If we didn't have Gobert, we would adapt to the current NBA. Playoff success in recent years has been about matchup flexibility. Traditional centers are phased out for guys like PJ Tucker, Draymond Green, Ibaka, Tristan Thompson, etc. Outside of Toronto playing Gasol significant minutes, not many teams are using traditional centers and rim protectors like Rudy. They exist, but not to play 24+ minutes for playoff games. Anthony Davis is the only unicorn out there who can play center, protect the rim, rebound and do everything. But we still haven't seen him perform in that role for a long playoff run.

If we lost Rudy, I would move Donovan to PG (this should probably happen regardless) and build a team loaded with perimeter defenders. If we can't funnel them to Rudy, then we need to play playoff basketball which is switching and staying in front of your opponent. Donovan and Bojan need to be the worst defenders in the primary lineup. I love what Royce and Ingles bring, but we would need two more guys who are of that quality or better. Guys who can defend well and can hit the open 3. Can we find the next Bruce Bowen or Andre Iguodala? We need that type guy added to the lineup. Easier said than done. I would be happy if we could find another Royce/Ingles type guy.

In a perfect world, we trade Rudy to Boston for Jaylen Brown. From there, we get a couple quality centers who can rotate throughout the season with Bradley. We need for at least one center to be an adequate threat from 3. We would have flexibility at SG, SF and PF so positions are kind of a moot point. The roster would consist of:

Donovan
Brown
Royce
Bojan
Ingles
6th man Clarkson
Bowen/Iggy/Royce/Ingles wing defender addition
Center by committee (Bradley, Favors?, Baynes?)

It's not perfect, but it's not the end of the world. Nothing is really. It would be mighty stupid of us to lose Gobert for nothing. The next stupid thing would be to sign him to super max or close because we are afraid of any kind of alternative.

Overall, we probably take a small step back in terms of regular season record. Come playoff time, I think we would be feared.

Seems reasonable. It's a shame we've skewed towards smaller dudes who can put up 30 in college.instead of athletes with NBA bodies with our late draft picks. We'd basically be starting from scratch with the kind of team you want to build. We'd have to do something like max out Covington just because he fits what we'd be looking for so well.

I wonder what Lindsey and Zanik have up their sleeve. Pundits say that the Jazz have every intention of keeping Gobert and Mitchell around. But I really don't know the number for Gobert that doesn't insult the supermax eligible player, but that also is reasonable enough for us to continue to build a team.

 

[Avery]

I think things look different for the following reasons:

- he's trying to be a complete player when sometimes he just needs to attack. You can almost see it on his face that's trying to make everybody happy, be a leader, cautiously attack while looking to pass to everybody and run the offense. He looks tense when as a rookie he was carefree.

- more guys need the ball for success now. Then, he could dominate the ball with no flack from anybody. What scorer was going to question that he should have the ball so much? Now, Conley, Clarkson, Bojan others need touches.

- fans expect him to do something special every single time. He set the bar pretty high. Not only did he set the bar high, many expected him to take it to the next level AND dominate while doing it.

- adjustments - NBA teams adjusted to him making it harder for him to succeed. He's gotten better, but lanes to dominate are fewer to find.

We need to appreciate and nurture what we have. We also, as a franchise, need to put more guys around him who play off him not need the ball for success. Conley is a great guy and a good player, but a stupid fit. Mitchell needs the ball in his hands on almost every possession. He still has such a bright future and he's still averaging 24+ as an All Star.

As a franchise, we need to go all-in to build around him. That means letting him be the primary ball handler and spacing everyone else out. He needs to be surrounded by four legit three point threats who can hit some midranges. A guy like Kyle Korver could probably get tons of catch and shoot threes (not advocating for him, just the type).

It's time to move away from traditional 1-5 lineups. Give me a couple stretch 4's and a trio of 3 and D guys. Make the opponent respect the whole half court. Take full advantage of the way the game is being officiated.

 

[LoPo]

As a franchise, we need to go all-in to build around him. That means letting him be the primary ball handler and spacing everyone else out. He needs to be surrounded by four legit three point threats who can hit some midranges. A guy like Kyle Korver could probably get tons of catch and shoot threes (not advocating for him, just the type).

It's time to move away from traditional 1-5 lineups. Give me a couple stretch 4's and a trio of 3 and D guys. Make the opponent respect the whole half court. Take full advantage of the way the game is being officiated.

I agree. I don't 100% want to move away from Gobert, but in the back of my mind, I really want to see what we would look like altering to a 5 athlete, 5 shooter roster.

Like you're saying, if we had Donovan, Royce, Bojan and let's say a JJ Redick from a couple years ago, our 5th starter would only need to be a bigger guy who hustles, plays good D, rebounds and isn't a 0% 3pt shooter. It could be a PJ Tucker type or even as big as an Aaron Baynes/Ibaka/younger Horford.

 

[jom2003]

As a franchise, we need to go all-in to build around him. That means letting him be the primary ball handler and spacing everyone else out. He needs to be surrounded by four legit three point threats who can hit some midranges. A guy like Kyle Korver could probably get tons of catch and shoot threes (not advocating for him, just the type).

It's time to move away from traditional 1-5 lineups. Give me a couple stretch 4's and a trio of 3 and D guys. Make the opponent respect the whole half court. Take full advantage of the way the game is being officiated.

this + we need role players who can do dirty work in order to build around DM. enough of Conley, JC, Bogey who are all basically useless when their shots aren't falling. You can have one or maybe two scoring specialist. but having three are just way too many. these guys are actually the ones that need pieces around them, not vice versa.

If we wanna build a team around DM or anybody in that regard, we need utility guys who can box out, rebound, defend, set picks, hustle + other dirty work so our stars don't have to waste their energy doing them.

Luka wouldn't be Luka Magic if Mavs plays him at the 4 and asks him to box out for his teammate while keeping DSJ at the point. Harden wouldn't be the scoring champ if Rockets didn't give him the ball and instead asked him to stand in the corner watching his teammate pick n roll on top of the key. Giannis wouldn't be MVP if Bucks asked him to battle in the paint like a traditional big man. You get the idea.

 

[Avery]

I agree. I don't 100% want to move away from Gobert, but in the back of my mind, I really want to see what we would look like altering to a 5 athlete, 5 shooter roster.

Like you're saying, if we had Donovan, Royce, Bojan and let's say a JJ Redick from a couple years ago, our 5th starter would only need to be a bigger guy who hustles, plays good D, rebounds and isn't a 0% 3pt shooter. It could be a PJ Tucker type or even as big as an Aaron Baynes/Ibaka/younger Horford.

It's unpopular with the forum, but I would listen to Gobert offers. If we think he might bolt as a UFA, extort his value. The supermax is insane.

 

[jom2003]

I agree. I don't 100% want to move away from Gobert, but in the back of my mind, I really want to see what we would look like altering to a 5 athlete, 5 shooter roster.

Like you're saying, if we had Donovan, Royce, Bojan and let's say a JJ Redick from a couple years ago, our 5th starter would only need to be a bigger guy who hustles, plays good D, rebounds and isn't a 0% 3pt shooter. It could be a PJ Tucker type or even as big as an Aaron Baynes/Ibaka/younger Horford.

It's actually easier to build around Rudy. Just play Ingles at the point and trade Conley for some stretch 4 who can rebound then we are set. we have enough shooting on this team already to hide Rudy on offense. But to build around DM, we need to reshape this team so that we have enough athleticism to make up for the lack of size.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

It's actually easier to build around Rudy. Just play Ingles at the point and trade Conley for some stretch 4 who can rebound then we are set. we have enough shooting on this team already to hide Rudy on offense. But to build around DM, we need to reshape this team so that we have enough athleticism to make up for the lack of size.

How much would the Knicks give us for Mitchell?

 

[jom2003]

How much would the Knicks give us for Mitchell?

I'd take Barrett+Portis+a unprotected New York first. Sign/trade of course. Then we can play RJ at the point and develop his skills once Ingles is done. I'm a believer of tall PGs and Rudy is at his best offensively if we have tall guards feeding him.

 

[LoPo]

How much would the Knicks give us for Mitchell?

I wouldn't trade Mitchell. He is the face of the franchise. He's not perfect on the court, but off the court, he's damn near. We should be able to have him under contract the next 4-5 years. He's still getting better.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

 

[LogGrad98]

One thing I've noticed that is different is he has really gone away from the spin move, which was so effective to get him a little space to get the floater off or to get to the rim, and he seems to use English less and less effectively. One reason he made so many crazy layups look easy is he was a master of using English off the backboard. Now it seems he uses English very little and gets more clangers on layups than he did as a rookie.

I wonder how much of that is adding muscle to get stronger. Added muscle and weight can cause you to lose some agility and finer motor skills sometimes depending on how you train. Some of this might also have been coached out of him, with the coaches encouraging him to simplify his game, which to me made him less dynamic. He's better with the ball in his hands, had developed very solid shots from all over the floor, and gets to the rim, but a lot of the flash is gone in that, it's just business. I think he undeniably a better player now but I do miss the flourish he played with in his rookie year. Damnit was he fun to watch.

 

[Deleted member 5000]

DM has been so amazing, since Summer League that first year, I've never posted a negative thing about his game and still see no need.

He's an all time great - I've been saying it the whole time

 

[Deleted member 5000]

The cat will be out of the bag to the ordinary citizenry that we have the next Michael Jordan, get your DM45 rookie cards now!! - rare144

Feb 5, 2018