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El Paso Shooting

Terrorism is terrorism. It’s not a left or right issue and deserves to be stamped out without mercy.

I completely disagree with the notion that Antifa is not a terrorist ideology. They’re no less despicable than the KKK, white nationalism, neo natzism and fundamental Islamist. All should be designated as domestic Terrorism here in the US. If you advocate for violence against a race, gender, sexuality or political opponent - you are a terrorist.

If you call out one, you should be willing to call them all out.
 
Stoked said:
No, I’m not saying Latinos are not or should be scared. I am saying so are the rest of us because holy ****. I don’t get the ethnicity angle obviously but I do get being nervous and scared.
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Well, yeah, I get being wary of crowds, of being anyplace that might be a tempting target, especially since it could be any venue or any place at all. And, obviously, false alarms in the past day or two bear out your observation. Not easy to live with the threat of terror that can happen anywhere at anytime.

Edit: yes, I had read the CNN piece you posted. Yes, that's to be expected given the circumstances. You hear anything that sounds anything like a gunshot or explosion, the reaction will be to run away from that sound. And it may be that way from now on.
 
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Ellis269 said:
Obviously, gun reform and ownership laws are going to be a huge issue with these incidents. As an independent voter, listening to the back and forth rhetoric from both sides is disgusting.

All I want to see is realistic proposals that SOLVE the problem WITHOUT infringing on peoples constitutional rights. I believe that the 2nd amendment is worth protecting, but that there’s certainly room for stronger background checks and reasonable (bipartisan) restrictions on who can own a gun and what type.

So far, all I’m hearing is the same partisan ******** from both sides. . .

Until this.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/07/op...olence-yang/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

This actually feels like a new idea aimed at SOLVING some of these problems.

I don’t think it would be unconstitutional, and it adds a level of personal accountability and responsibility to gun ownership that I haven’t seen advocated elsewhere.

Red Flag laws are great, but must also have strong due process procedures in place to prevent abuse by authorities. Stronger background checks and wait times should be universally supported. I’d like to see stricter enforcement of illegal gun possession - make the punishment for that crime count for something.
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I could get behind that.
 
Ellis269 said:
Obviously, gun reform and ownership laws are going to be a huge issue with these incidents. As an independent voter, listening to the back and forth rhetoric from both sides is disgusting.

All I want to see is realistic proposals that SOLVE the problem WITHOUT infringing on peoples constitutional rights. I believe that the 2nd amendment is worth protecting, but that there’s certainly room for stronger background checks and reasonable (bipartisan) restrictions on who can own a gun and what type.

So far, all I’m hearing is the same partisan ******** from both sides. . .

Until this.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/07/op...olence-yang/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

This actually feels like a new idea aimed at SOLVING some of these problems.

I don’t think it would be unconstitutional, and it adds a level of personal accountability and responsibility to gun ownership that I haven’t seen advocated elsewhere.

Red Flag laws are great, but must also have strong due process procedures in place to prevent abuse by authorities. Stronger background checks and wait times should be universally supported. I’d like to see stricter enforcement of illegal gun possession - make the punishment for that crime count for something.
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I like it a lot.
I also think it would reduce the number of gun owners. Which is a good thing imo.



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Ellis269 said:
Terrorism is terrorism. It’s not a left or right issue and deserves to be stamped out without mercy.

I completely disagree with the notion that Antifa is not a terrorist ideology. They’re no less despicable than the KKK, white nationalism, neo natzism and fundamental Islamist. All should be designated as domestic Terrorism here in the US. If you advocate for violence against a race, gender, sexuality or political opponent - you are a terrorist.

If you call out one, you should be willing to call them all out.
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Well from what I have read, no one (zero people) has died at the hands of antifa.

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fishonjazz said:
Well from what I have read, no one (zero people) has died at the hands of antifa.
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I don’t think killing someone is the standard that needs to be allowed for an organization or group to be labeled terrorists.

They’ve hurt people and their rhetoric and ideology is dangerous. Regardless of why they’re assembling. The moment you start targeting your political opponents for violence, you’re a terrorist. Antifa certainly qualifies.

If you want to condemn white nationalist, proud boys and the KKK for the disgusting ideological beliefs they have; I think you have to do the same for groups like Antifa as well. They don’t cover their faces because it looks cool. They are looking to hurt people and people will be seriously injured of killed if it’s left unchecked. We should be willing to call it out BEFORE it gets to that point.

If you choose to excuse their behavior, you’re enabling political violence, free speech suppression and the doxxing of private citizens - including ICE. It’s either all acceptable, or it’s all bad. We can agree to disagree, but I’ll respect your opinion less if you’re willing to call out only those that you oppose politically.
 
Ellis269 said:
I don’t think killing someone is the standard that needs to be allowed for an organization or group to be labeled terrorists.

They’ve hurt people and their rhetoric and ideology is dangerous. Regardless of why they’re assembling. The moment you start targeting your political opponents for violence, you’re a terrorist. Antifa certainly qualifies.

If you want to condemn white nationalist, proud boys and the KKK for the disgusting ideological beliefs they have; I think you have to do the same for groups like Antifa as well. They don’t cover their faces because it looks cool. They are looking to hurt people and people will be seriously injured of killed if it’s left unchecked. We should be willing to call it out BEFORE it gets to that point.

If you choose to excuse their behavior, you’re enabling political violence, free speech suppression and the doxxing of private citizens - including ICE. It’s either all acceptable, or it’s all bad. We can agree to disagree, but I’ll respect your opinion less if you’re willing to call out only those that you oppose politically.
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Sounds like Trump is a terrorist too by these guidelines. Hell you could probably say the Democratic and republican parties are terrorist organizations too

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Ellis269 said:
I don’t think killing someone is the standard that needs to be allowed for an organization or group to be labeled terrorists.

They’ve hurt people and their rhetoric and ideology is dangerous. Regardless of why they’re assembling. The moment you start targeting your political opponents for violence, you’re a terrorist. Antifa certainly qualifies.

If you want to condemn white nationalist, proud boys and the KKK for the disgusting ideological beliefs they have; I think you have to do the same for groups like Antifa as well. They don’t cover their faces because it looks cool. They are looking to hurt people and people will be seriously injured of killed if it’s left unchecked. We should be willing to call it out BEFORE it gets to that point.

If you choose to excuse their behavior, you’re enabling political violence, free speech suppression and the doxxing of private citizens - including ICE. It’s either all acceptable, or it’s all bad. We can agree to disagree, but I’ll respect your opinion less if you’re willing to call out only those that you oppose politically.
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Btw I don't oppose the KKK or white nationalists politically. I don't even really know what their politics are. Are they for or against abortion? I have no clue. Are they for or against gun control? Idk. I oppose them cause they want to kill and hurt people due to the color of their skin.
Does antifa want to hurt and kill people due to the color of their skin? Not as far as I know.
I don't think looking to hurt people is the only thing that would make a group terrorist. Why they want to hurt people means more to me. Like if there is a group that wants to hurt rapists and pedophiles then I down with them.
Then you have the US military who look to hurt people as well and I don't consider soldiers to be terrorists (maybe I should?).
Cops look to hurt people too. I happen to think the people they look to hurt usually deserve it though.
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Trump boasting about "amazing" visits to Texas and Ohio. Getting in tweet-tiffs with mayors. etc., his administration boasting about being received like a "rockstar". Trump tweeted he received, "tremendous enthusiasm and even love."
 
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str8line said:
Trump boasting about "amazing" visits to Texas and Ohio for his photo op. Getting in tweet-tiffs with mayors. etc., his administration boasting about being received like a "rockstar". A How can a single person support this arsehole?
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Some are greedy assholes in it for the tax cuts. Others have been taken in by a cult of personality, and enjoy sticking it to the libs. There's a fair share of racist "deplorables" thrown in for good measure.
 
str8line said:
Trump boasting about "amazing" visits to Texas and Ohio. Getting in tweet-tiffs with mayors. etc., his administration boasting about being received like a "rockstar". Trump tweeted he received, "tremendous enthusiasm and even love."
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Taking time to make it about him. And to make himself a victim, no less!! Mr. Trump, how low will you go...



 
Ellis269 said:
Sorry, but I have zero respect for someone who advocates gun violence in their music, movies and games then decry and demonize legal gun owners and call for stricter laws. I don’t give a damn if it’s clear that their work is fiction. It’s hypocritical. I have a ton more respect for studios, actors, directors, artists and producers who don’t make those types of films speaking out about it.
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Obviously I haven't seen the film, and am not interested in seeing it, but I don't think it's "advocating" gun violence. In fact from what I can gather it's a satire. So, kind of doing the opposite really.
 
fishonjazz said:
Trump is king snowflake


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It's important to him to maintain a victim image. He wants his base energized at all times to exact revenge on his political opponents. It's important to him to keep that victim status in the forefront of his cult's hive mind. It's the fact that he felt the need to do this on the day where he is acting out the role of comforter-in-chief that is another piece of evidence that his "love of country" is completely fake. It always has been fake in his case.

That he would take the time to emphasize his victim status in a setting where the dead and injured are the actual victims is still another advertisement of his lack of character, honesty, and empathy. And that willingness to do this, at this time, demonstrates that he reduces any and every national event in terms of how he can manipulate such events to his own advantage. It's an innate selfishness that he really cannot mask, because "the comforter-in-chief" is the phony mask in his case, and the narcissist is his true face.

It's not a crime to put oneself first, nor a crime for a politician to serve his self interest, but the timing in this instance is still another reminder that we elevated the least among us to the highest office.
 
Ellis269 said:
They’ve hurt people and their rhetoric and ideology is dangerous. Regardless of why they’re assembling. The moment you start targeting your political opponents for violence, you’re a terrorist. Antifa certainly qualifies.
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Let's be clear: antifa organizes for the 'violent' throwing of milkshakes and water. The Proud Boys (and similar right-wing groups) organize and train to use their fists and other weapons on people. If you believe both of these actions are equally wrong, I won't try to persuade you otherwise. However, to claim that it is hypocritical to day these actions are of a different character is ludicrous.
 
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