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Elson and Watson appreciation thread

twentytwo

twentytwo

Active Member
Both of these guys signed on the cheap, both look to be players for us (especially for the money they got). Watson is getting better as the season has gone on, and Elson has really surprised me with his energy. I know we want to see Fes get more minutes, but I like what Elson has done.

So a pat on the back to these two dudes.
 
Watson was great tonight. Elson was nice in moments too -- I like he doesn't let anyone push him around. But back to Earl, he stepped up when DWill seemed like a surly liability much of the night.
 
Elson has impressed me a bit with his shooting and toughness. And it's always nice to have a backup PG that actually knows what he's doing. It's definitely helped us to get a decent start to the season.
 
Amen.
Watson isn't a great shooter these days, but his PG skills are excellent; good at both keeping the tempo up, setting other guys up and getting them the ball in the right places, and plays tough, no holds barred defense. Plays smart. Price should be here too, as he is always aggressive defensively at either PG or SG, and can get hot offensively. Does get out of control at times though...
Elson I knew was a smart player and was tough in the paint, but didn't know about his jump shot. Always plays with a purpose and stays under control.
 
I agree it looks like Watson is coming around so that's good to see, I think Elson's been solid all year and I love him taking those open 15 footers.
 
watson is playing at par of what i expected him to do - steady playmaking, good tough D.
hopefully elson becomes truly consistent with his shot, you'd think it wouldn't go in, but it just swishes the net. you'd actually think he's a very poor man's KG
 
I'm not wildly excited about seeing Elson get regular minutes. He's an energy guy, he can guard quicker bigs, and he's a good matchup guy to have. But he's woefully limited offensively (yeah, I saw him make a few jumpshots, too.) I'm terrified he's going to solidify himself in the lineup. It wouldn't be the worst thing to happen, but he shouldn't be playing over Fes on a regular basis.
 
If Elson is limited offensively, then what does that make of Fesenko?

If at all Elson is going to lose mins to Fess, it will be because of what Fess does better on the defensive end. Clog up space and alter a few shots.
 
I also think the signing of Watson has helped Price's game. Price seems to play much better off the ball instead of running the offense.
 
vj_74 said:
If Elson is limited offensively, then what does that make of Fesenko?

If at all Elson is going to lose mins to Fess, it will be because of what Fess does better on the defensive end. Clog up space and alter a few shots.
Click to expand...

Fes has an actual post game. Not world class, of course, but Elson has no post game. Pure high/low pick and pop. We need some semblance of a post threat on the second unit long term. We're getting away with it for now, but it won't last. I'm not worried about defense from that spot (on the 2nd). Both can do things. But Fes can become a weapon against second units, Elson can't.
 
twentytwo said:
Both of these guys signed on the cheap, both look to be players for us (especially for the money they got). Watson is getting better as the season has gone on, and Elson has really surprised me with his energy. I know we want to see Fes get more minutes, but I like what Elson has done.

So a pat on the back to these two dudes.
Click to expand...

I'm impressed with the overall performance of Watson. He is a true PG and a really efficient defender. I hope he will get better as he gets adjusted to the system. Watson >>> Price when it comes to running a system the way it should be.
 
Definitely like the energy with Price off the ball at SG and Watson running the show at PG. And together on defense they are like a couple bumblebee's:cool::cool:
 
If we had Fes and Elson's skills together w/o both their limitations, we'd have a C we could play all the time.
Jerry's challenge is to figure out which of them will help the most while hurting us the least ON A GAME BY GAME BASIS. Forget this bit about favoring one over the other all the time for every opponent.
 
billyshelby said:
Fes has an actual post game. Not world class, of course, but Elson has no post game. Pure high/low pick and pop. We need some semblance of a post threat on the second unit long term. We're getting away with it for now, but it won't last. I'm not worried about defense from that spot (on the 2nd). Both can do things. But Fes can become a weapon against second units, Elson can't.
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I dont think anyone looks at Fesenko as an offensive weapon. If he scores points it is a bonus. Having guys who could post up off the bench is a luxury anyways. A lot of teams do without it. Even Odom for the Lakers doesnt post up much.
When Okur gets back, we'll have him and Miles scoring off the bench. I am not too worried.

But in the meantime, playing Elson at PF and Fess at C is also an option that is worth exploring. I would'nt mind a Watson-Price/Hayward-Miles-Elson-Fesenko lineup at all, atleast in certain games.
 
In the approximately 20 minutes that Elson and Fesenko have played together up to Novermber 18, they have a +/- of -1. Not shabby, but not really promising (or helpful), either.

Meanwhile, Elson alongside Millsap and Elson alongside Jefferson have been good most of the time.
https://www.82games.com/1011/10UTA12.HTM#5man

So has Fesenko alongside almost everyone--except Elson and sometimes Kirilenko.
https://www.82games.com/1011/10UTA13.HTM#5man
Williams-Miles-Kirilenko-Millsap-Fesenko has a +/- of more than 1 per minute, as do two or three other comprehensible lineups.

Such analysis seems so basic from a coaching standpoint. It is puzzling and damaging that the coaching staff doesn't even make such simple connections--not to mention ignoring the fundamental principle of rewarding good performance and reducing deficient performance.

This is a very small sample size, so the results can change with time. But these are the same trends that we saw with Fesenko last year: there were multiple combinations where he was a positive option.

P.S. Both AK's PF lineups with Fes and Elson and Kiri's own by-position analysis show that the PF experiment simply isn't working (yet).
https://www.82games.com/1011/10UTA8.HTM#bypos
With the greater need at the wing anyway, I don't want to see a lot of Kiri at the 4 anymore.
 
Elson has been a solid backup and has done what he's paid to do. His hate crowd has already started, but I'll crack a beer for him.
 
InGameStrategy said:
With the greater need at the wing anyway, I don't want to see a lot of Kiri at the 4 anymore.
Click to expand...

Agree, except I really like AK's passing out of the high post. He seems to get us quite a few easy baskets when making passes from there. If there was a way to leave him at the wing while still letting him pass out of the high post I would do it. Other than that he doesn't help us much at the 4.

I do like that Watson is willing to come in and run the offense and get the second unit going with his Defense.

I under stand that Fes has things he doesn't do well. And I have been one that has said that his problems have been more because he goofs off than his talent level. But I really don't understand why he isn't getting min now. He seems to be putting in the work. And playing very well on the defensive end. Even contributing every once in a while on Offense. Elson has come in and done what I expected him to do. But I don't think he has earned more minutes than Fes. They both look like they can help this team.
 
Ben10 said:
Agree, except I really like AK's passing out of the high post. He seems to get us quite a few easy baskets when making passes from there. If there was a way to leave him at the wing while still letting him pass out of the high post I would do it. Other than that he doesn't help us much at the 4.
Click to expand...
If/when Memo comes back this might happen a little as Memo after setting a screen or 2 instead of flashing or staying under the hoop could spread out to the 3 line and may open cutters or post ups.
 
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