Erin Andrews - Awarded $55M

[JazzGal]

I sure don't see my contribution to this thread as anti-women in the slightest. Is that how it's being perceived? My opinion of this case has absolutely nothing to do with sex.

Since you were mostly discussing the judgment, of course it wasn't anti-women. I'm not saying anyone was being anti-women.

I should have probably stuck with the "not commenting" idea. There is no way to discuss it without people getting offended, which is certainly not my intention. Let's just say that no one but Erin knows what she has gone and is going through due to this horrible violation of privacy, and the fear and distrust she has to live with now.

 

[sirkickyass]

Maybe you should read my exchange with that actual attorney a little closer. He claimed rates were offered as teasers and that I didn't know what I was talking about. This wasn't even a valid response to my earlier statement, but nevertheless I refuted his claim about insurance rates showing how things really worked. He responded with an obfuscated post essentially agreeing that the way I said things worked was correct and backing off his claim of teaser rates. Yeah, he really showed me!

I think you should read that passage again. I didn't back off anything. I allowed that rates are set by actuarial adjustment. That does not mean that the rate you are offered is, by itself, the road to profitability for an insurance company. Those rates are the teaser to allow the company to borrow your pool of funds for investment purposes. That is the basis of price competition in the industry.

Your statements on this topic are generally wildly non-responsive, which is probably why they moved in various directions you didn't want them to go, but I can assure you that there is no objective reading of that exchange that you "won." Your description of the effect of these individual judgments on the insurance rates of society at large is both inaccurate and dangerously misleading.

I have news for you. This award against Marriott will do virtually nothing to stop crazy stalkers from making their victims lives miserable. We accomplished nothing but making some attorneys rich and increasing the cost of hotel rooms.

I think the entire history of consumer class actions disproves this assessment. At some point, underwriting obligations for insurers effectively require change to occur. This is why you don't see lots of new asbestos in construction.

You are completely overlooking two things. First, life is full of risks every day, and we simply cannot insulate ourselves against all of them (especially with a strategy like this). Second, future hotel customers are the ones who will ultimately be paying this fine. Take a look at the health care situation if you really think that's a good idea. We are suing ourselves into oblivion.

On this point you're not totally wrong. I frequently lament that we don't have a doctrine in the law simply called "**** happens." However, this is not an instance of **** happens. This is an instance of gross negligence on the part of an employee and long experience has taught us that holding employer's responsible for the conduct of their employees is the best way to allocate fault and harm. Otherwise victims would rarely, if ever, be compensated for the actions done by employees in their professional capacity. You may disagree with the entire idea behind respondeat superior, but it's the way the law works and there are good reasons for it to be the way that it is.

Since you were mostly discussing the judgment, of course it wasn't anti-women. I'm not saying anyone was being anti-women.

I should have probably stuck with the "not commenting" idea. There is no way to discuss it without people getting offended, which is certainly not my intention. Let's just say that no one but Erin knows what she has gone and is going through due to this horrible violation of privacy, and the fear and distrust she has to live with now.

You should comment. Things don't get better unless people are confronted with their own awfulness. The struggle is real.

 

[fishonjazz]

Is there even the slightest chance that Andrews was not really affected by the video at all?

Some women in the world honestly don't mind lots of people seeing them naked on the internet.

 

[JazzGal]

Is there even the slightest chance that Andrews was not really affected by the video at all?

Some women in the world honestly don't mind lots of people seeing them naked on the internet.

Really? Have you listened to her talk about it? Women who choose public nudity are free to do so. But Erin did not get that choice, and that is not something that should be taken away from anyone. No one has the right to make that decision for another person.

 

[Gameface]

If Andrews wanted to pose nude for money she had plenty of opportunities to do it on her own, and she didn't. She was a professional sports journalist. While she may not have lost her job, i'd bet she was treated differently in a way she didn't want.

 

[b_line]

Is there even the slightest chance that Andrews was not really affected by the video at all?

Some women in the world honestly don't mind lots of people seeing them naked on the internet.

Even if it didn't affect her work or public life, it surely affected her personally.

It was just a horrible thing to happen to a person.

As has been said ad nauseum, she didn't chose to pose nude for all to see.

 

[fishonjazz]

Even if it didn't affect her work or public life, it surely affected her personally.

It was just a horrible thing to happen to a person.

As has been said ad nauseum, she didn't chose to pose nude for all to see.

She didn't chose it.... But what I'm saying is that for some women it wouldn't be that big a deal either.

Some women are not offended and upset by the same things as other women and some women actually purposefully put themselves nude onto the internet for all to see.
Like for instance.... If someone made this same video of pam Anderson it might not affect her personally.

Would be funny if she secretly knew the guy who made the video and they had devised this plan with the intention of getting rich off the hotel

 

[Gameface]

There are also guys who cut their junk off. So I guess Lorena Bobbitt didn't really do anything wrong.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

.

 

[franklin]

Can Erin Andrews make a sex tape already? I want to see her career take off.

 

[franklin]

I really hate the like button btw. garbage

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

She didn't chose it.... But what I'm saying is that for some women it wouldn't be that big a deal either.

Some women are not offended and upset by the same things as other women and some women actually purposefully put themselves nude onto the internet for all to see.
Like for instance.... If someone made this same video of pam Anderson it might not affect her personally.

Would be funny if she secretly knew the guy who made the video and they had devised this plan with the intention of getting rich off the hotel

And you honestly don't understand how what you've written here may come across to some as incredibly insensitive and callous toward the trauma this woman has experienced by having her privacy so brutally and publicly violated (as well as other women who have experience similar violations of their privacy)?

 

[fishonjazz]

And you honestly don't understand how what you've written here may come across to some as incredibly insensitive and callous toward the trauma this woman has experienced by having her privacy so brutally and publicly violated (as well as other women who have experience similar violations of their privacy)?

Im just playing devil's advocate and saying that not every woman is the same and feels the same about every situation.

Some women might feel traumatized and disgraced and embarrassed and violated.

Some women might be like "well that ******* shouldn't have done that to me but in the grand scheme of things it's not that big of a deal" and move on.

I think that not all women are exactly the same and I won't presume to think I know how they would all react to an event

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Im just playing devil's advocate and saying that not every woman is the same and feels the same about every situation.

Some women might feel traumatized and disgraced and embarrassed and violated.

Some women might be like "well that ******* shouldn't have done that to me but in the grand scheme of things it's not that big of a deal" and move on.

I think that not all women are exactly the same and I won't presume to think I know how they would all react to an event

One can imagine that different women react differently to being sexually assaulted as well. Some cope far better and are able to move on much quicker than others.

How individual women react to being sexually violated (and I think the Erin Andrews case qualifies as a sexual violation) is irrelevant to what we all should think about the sexual violation itself. That one woman might move on more quickly from being raped does not mitigate at all the horribleness of the violation.

Or do you disagree?

 

[fishonjazz]

One can imagine that different women react differently to being sexually assaulted as well. Some cope far better and are able to move on much quicker than others.

How individual women react to being sexually violated (and I think the Erin Andrews case qualifies as a sexual violation) is irrelevant to what we all should think about the sexual violation itself. That one woman might move on more quickly from being raped does not mitigate at all the horribleness of the violation.

Or do you disagree?

Wait, what do you think that I think about the violation itself?

Also I do think there is a difference between rape and a short blurry video and nudity.

I would much rather have my daughter get crappily filmed nude for 10 seconds than get raped.
How about you?

 

[fishonjazz]

There are also guys who cut their junk off. So I guess Lorena Bobbitt didn't really do anything wrong.

I think that the hotel and the filmer totally did something wrong. I was raised with good morals and filming someone nude who is unaware of it is disgusting and sleezy and no one should ever do that.

And you honestly don't understand how what you've written here may come across to some as incredibly insensitive and callous toward the trauma this woman has experienced by having her privacy so brutally and publicly violated (as well as other women who have experience similar violations of their privacy)?

My take on this thread has simply been that the victim may or may not thinks its a big deal. It may affect them in a huge way. They may be traumatized, and need counseling for years and years to overcome this violation and no amount of money would be enough. Or the victim might not think that being nude in a blurry 10 second video is a big deal and might just shrug it off and be totally stoked about getting millions for something that doesn't even bother them that much in the first place.

Some in this thread are acting as if the only outcome is the victim feeling violated, destroyed, sullied, embarrassed, outraged, etc. I think that is untrue.

It was asked in this very thread "How would you feel if this was your sister, mom, daughter that this happened to." Well it would 100% depend on how my sister, daughter, mom reacted to this happening to them.
If my daughter were to be filmed nude through a keyhole totally unaware and then called me up crying and her life was just ruined and she was going to need therapy to help her cope then i would feel just horrible and be extremely angry and the payout to her could never be enough.

If she called me up crying and felt a bit embarrassed and saddened and her and i were able to talk about it and she was able to move on without any long term damage to her then i would feel a little upset about the situation but happy that my daughter was going to be fine going forward and also I would no longer have to worry about her financial stability.

If she called me up and happily said "Dad guess what,? Some dumbass filmed me nude through a keyhole and now i get millions and millions of dollars!" and seemed to not only be totally ok with what happened but even glad because now she was rich over something that was not a big deal to her anyways, Then i would be happy for her.

Me personally, i dont think of being nude as a big deal. I have no problem with people seeing me nude. wanted or unwanted. I could totally live in a nudist colony. I sleep nude. I have no problem walking through the house nude. There are others out there like me as well. My daughter is going to grow up around me and I plan on teaching her about sexuality and the human body and hope to teach her that there is nothing to be ashamed of with these topics. Hopefully if this exact scenario played out with my daughter it would not affect her even a little bit and she would call me up to tell how she gets paid millions and millions of dollars all because some idiot filmed her through a keyhole.
I hope my daughter would not be traumatized by something like this... Hopefully she will be able to see the big picture and realize that some random people seeing her blurry nude body for 10 seconds is not something that should make her feel bad about herself. Hopefully she wouldn't feel like a victim. Again, if she did feel violated, traumatized, and it emotionally messed her up then i would be mad as hell and want to kill the mo fos responsible and no amount of money would be enough.

My whole point in this thread is that not every woman is the same. There are different ways to react to this violation and none are the right or wrong way to react.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Wait, what do you think that I think about the violation itself?

Also I do think there is a difference between rape and a short blurry video and nudity.

I would much rather have my daughter get crappily filmed nude for 10 seconds than get raped.
How about you?

Well, who wouldn't rather be filmed nude, without permission, than raped? But then, who wouldn't rather be raped than tortured to death slowly and painfully? That one might conceivably suffer worse offenses (there's almost always something worse that could happen) does not diminish the horribleness of the offense one has experienced. You've offered a false choice that is irrelevant to the discussion.

I sense we are talking past each other.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I think that the hotel and the filmer totally did something wrong. I was raised with good morals and filming someone nude who is unaware of it is disgusting and sleezy and no one should ever do that.





My take on this thread has simply been that the victim may or may not thinks its a big deal. It may affect them in a huge way. They may be traumatized, and need counseling for years and years to overcome this violation and no amount of money would be enough. Or the victim might not think that being nude in a blurry 10 second video is a big deal and might just shrug it off and be totally stoked about getting millions for something that doesn't even bother them that much in the first place.

Some in this thread are acting as if the only outcome is the victim feeling violated, destroyed, sullied, embarrassed, outraged, etc. I think that is untrue.

It was asked in this very thread "How would you feel if this was your sister, mom, daughter that this happened to." Well it would 100% depend on how my sister, daughter, mom reacted to this happening to them.
If my daughter were to be filmed nude through a keyhole totally unaware and then called me up crying and her life was just ruined and she was going to need therapy to help her cope then i would feel just horrible and be extremely angry and the payout to her could never be enough.

If she called me up crying and felt a bit embarrassed and saddened and her and i were able to talk about it and she was able to move on without any long term damage to her then i would feel a little upset about the situation but happy that my daughter was going to be fine going forward and also I would no longer have to worry about her financial stability.

If she called me up and happily said "Dad guess what,? Some dumbass filmed me nude through a keyhole and now i get millions and millions of dollars!" and seemed to not only be totally ok with what happened but even glad because now she was rich over something that was not a big deal to her anyways, Then i would be happy for her.

Me personally, i dont think of being nude as a big deal. I have no problem with people seeing me nude. wanted or unwanted. I could totally live in a nudist colony. I sleep nude. I have no problem walking through the house nude. There are others out there like me as well. My daughter is going to grow up around me and I plan on teaching her about sexuality and the human body and hope to teach her that there is nothing to be ashamed of with these topics. Hopefully if this exact scenario played out with my daughter it would not affect her even a little bit and she would call me up to tell how she gets paid millions and millions of dollars all because some idiot filmed her through a keyhole.
I hope my daughter would not be traumatized by something like this... Hopefully she will be able to see the big picture and realize that some random people seeing her blurry nude body for 10 seconds is not something that should make her feel bad about herself. Hopefully she wouldn't feel like a victim. Again, if she did feel violated, traumatized, and it emotionally messed her up then i would be mad as hell and want to kill the mo fos responsible and no amount of money would be enough.

My whole point in this thread is that not every woman is the same. There are different ways to react to this violation and none are the right or wrong way to react.

If we take only your last sentence, I agree. My question is, how/why is this relevant to discussing what this woman went through?

Also, there's a big difference to walking around nude at a nudist beach than having someone film you nude without your permission, violating intimately your privacy, and then posting that film on the internet.

Also, what is wrong with feeling like a victim, if one is indeed a victim?

 

[fishonjazz]

My question is, how/why is this relevant to discussing what this woman went through?

I don't know Erin Andrews so I don't really know what she went through.

Does she feel violated and ruined? Will it take years of therapy for her to recover?
Was she a little upset and now feels like everything is settled and the judgment was fair and she is over it now with more money than before?
Is she thinking that this incident is the best thing that ever happened to her?

I have no idea so I can only discuss how someone like me would feel about it. Or look at the different ways someone could feel about it.

 

[fishonjazz]

Also, what is wrong with feeling like a victim, if one is indeed a victim?

Nothing at all is wrong with her feeling like a victim. I don't think I have ever said that erin andrews is in the wrong here.

I have said that what the hotel employee and the filmer did was wrong though