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Erin Andrews - Awarded $55M

fishonjazz said:
Growing up society always taught me to treat women with way more respect than i treat men. I always opened car doors for them, always bought them flowers, always treated them softly and kindly, gave tons of compliments, do favors for them, would never hit them.

I treat my guy friends good too but i would never talk to a woman the way i talk to my guy friends and never buy them stuff. I do compliment them sometimes but not nearly as often as I compliment women.


I can only speak for myself but i treat women way better than i treat men. Is that societies fault too?
Is it bad that i treat women better than men cause that means i treat them different? How do the feminists feel about this issue i wonder.
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I once went on a date with a woman who got offended that I opened the car door for her. I apologized and she got offended by that too. We went to dinner and talked about that sort of stuff. She softened up considerably, and when we returned to the car she asked if I would get her door. It was pretty cool of her, but I told her she could open her own damn door. (jk)

I'll bet that if people in this conversation saw my actual interactions with women they wouldn't see me as the neg deserving monster that I'm apparently coming off as.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I'll bet that if people in this conversation saw my actual interactions with women they wouldn't see me as the neg deserving monster that I'm apparently coming off as.
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I feel the same way. I feel like I'm coming off as an insensitive woman hating *******. I think I'm done with this thread. I don't like how it inaccurately makes me appear
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I realize that there's a lot of anger in the feminist crowd. I don't believe feminists are a good representation of all women.
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"For the record, feminism, by definition, is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes."

". . .The more I have spoken about feminism, the more I have realized that fighting for women's rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain, it is that this has to stop."

-Emma Watson
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Maybe a better way to say it is that I don't feel the immense responsibility you apparently do for all of these perceived crimes of man against women. It feels like you are implying that being a man is a crime. It seems like you believe that women suffer constant and ongoing harm because of the existence of men. I don't think that's true, even though there are obviously specific occasions where it does happen.
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Here's an example of my earlier sentiment. You could do a full women's studies class on this one post and whole courses are about this mode of thinking.
 
JazzGal said:
"For the record, feminism, by definition, is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes."

". . .The more I have spoken about feminism, the more I have realized that fighting for women's rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain, it is that this has to stop."

-Emma Watson
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I went to a Gail Collins event a few years ago, where feminism, and in particular masculine hostility towards it, was discussed at length. She said that she believes most people are feminists but take anti-feminist positions because they're essentially allergic to the word.

Seems fair given the discussion on here today.
 
I choose to see you guys as evolving. I am not questioning how you treat the women in your lives. You are Jazz fans, and therefore obviously have many redeeming qualities.

In answer to previous questions, I have no problem with a man holding the door for me. I do not have a problem with a woman holding the door for me. I do not have a problem holding the door open for either a man or a woman. Whoever gets to the door first should be courteous to the person who is right behind them. Simple.

Compliments are appropriate. They cross the line when they are always about appearance and never about any other aspect of a person, or when they are familiar in a way that makes a person uncomfortable.
 
dalamon said:
1) lol

2) Let me just get this straight-- when you say 'that's not what I've observed', and 'it is possible that this was an issue 20 years ago'-- what are you precisely referring to?

Are you referring to the notion of the persistence of the societal prioritization of socially-constructed beauty standards as something that simply does not exist anymore? Poof, it's gone-- and your anecdotal work experience is proof of it?





d'awww. Says the guy who's probably never read a single published piece of literature from any North American studying Womens and Gender Studies

PS: I've already finished one college degree, i've worked 7 jobs since age 14 in 3 different countries.
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Nope, I'm saying that I don't think it's the only choice as you said it was. I think that when you brush off the social progress that has been made by women for women it is disrespectful. I'm saying that women do find respect outside of their sexuality. I'm saying that you are making sweeping comments that don't seem to be fair to women. I think that your notions of what a woman should be are repressive and limiting and simply not your call. I think you are a misogynist masquerading as a liberal. When you place the blame for things like rape and sexual harassment on the desire by some women to look sexy you sound like the worst kind of Baptist minister.
 
♪alt13 said:
Nope, I'm saying that I don't think it's the only choice as you said it was. I think that when you brush off the social progress that has been made by women for women it is disrespectful. I'm saying that women do find respect outside of their sexuality. I'm saying that you are making sweeping comments that don't seem to be fair to women. I think that your notions of what a woman should be are repressive and limiting and simply not your call. I think you are a misogynist masquerading as a liberal. When you place the blame for things like rape and sexual harassment on the desire by some women to look sexy you sound like the worst kind of Baptist minister.
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A solid 4/10 on the troll attempt. Don't worry, I won't bite.
 
dalamon said:
A solid 4/10 on the troll attempt. Don't worry, I won't bite.
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It' not a troll attempt. No poster here makes more declarations about who a woman should be than you do. Further your comments often equate women to poorly trained dogs who would be virtuous if only men trained them better.
 
♪alt13 said:
It' not a troll attempt. No poster here makes more declarations about who a woman should be than you do. Further your comments often equate women to poorly trained dogs who would be virtuous if only men trained them better.
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A completely garbage post from a generally non-garbage poster. Rather baffling.


Pray tell, what I have I said that a woman should be?
 
♪alt13 said:
Nope, I'm saying that I don't think it's the only choice as you said it was. I think that when you brush off the social progress that has been made by women for women it is disrespectful. I'm saying that women do find respect outside of their sexuality. I'm saying that you are making sweeping comments that don't seem to be fair to women. I think that your notions of what a woman should be are repressive and limiting and simply not your call. I think you are a misogynist masquerading as a liberal. When you place the blame for things like rape and sexual harassment on the desire by some women to look sexy you sound like the worst kind of Baptist minister.
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Ye who wish to practice their straw-man building, refer to this post. a steaming pile of ****.
 
dalamon said:
A completely garbage post from a generally non-garbage poster. Rather baffling.


Pray tell, what I have I said that a woman should be?
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Well I guess that was 100% fair you say much less about what a woman should be than you do about what she shouldn't be.

In this thread I couldn't believe that you had placed the blame for these sorts of things on a "woman's paramount obligation to be beautiful". I read it as: Erin Andrews(or any other woman) was violated because she wanted to be beautiful and the only reason she wanted to be beautiful was because of her training.

I asked you to clarify because I could not believe that you would place the blame for what happen not on the psychology of the perpetrator where it clearly belongs but rather you put it on the psychology of the victim. When you responded you doubled down on women being creatures without choice.

I think what you have put forward is a backwards attitude with politically correct packaging.



Edit: You will notice that I took no issue with your statements about what men get away with. That's because those statements in no way blamed the victim.
 
♪alt13 said:
Well I guess that was 100% fair you say much less about what a woman should be than you do about what she shouldn't be.
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And here comes the first backpedal. Don't worry viewers, there'll be more.

In this thread I couldn't believe that you had placed the blame for these sorts of things on a "woman's paramount obligation to be beautiful". I read it as: Erin Andrews(or any other woman) was violated because she wanted to be beautiful and the only reason she wanted to be beautiful was because of her training.
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Then you don't have a shred of reading comprehension. It's the societally-instituted paramount importance of a woman's beauty imposed by a male-dominated patriarchal society. Women had no agency in this. Men created it to commodify women and ascertain their own power without opposition. Denying this is categorically sexist.

I asked you to clarify because I could not believe that you would place the blame for what happen not on the psychology of the perpetrator where it clearly belongs but rather you put it on the psychology of the victim. When you responded you doubled down on women being creatures without choice.
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And this of course is categorically false.

I think what you have put forward is a backwards attitude with politically correct packaging.
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And what you're doing is creating straw man after straw man, mostly based off of poor reading comprehension and desire to construct a character that doesn't exist.



Edit: You will notice that I took no issue with your statements about what men get away with. That's because those statements in no way blamed the victim.
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You can't ****ing read if you think I am victim-blaming in any capacity whatsoever. Please bring up a single example of me "blaming the victim".
 
HeyHey has only read maybe 10% of my posts in this thread, and even those were read poorly.
 
You seem to fundamentally misunderstood basic sociology.

When I say that we are raised in a world where we are told to value a woman's beauty above all other things-- I'm not saying that each man and woman buys into this.

Rather, I am identifying the pervasive dialogue that is preached by our society-- which is why so many women buy into it, and why so many more women suffer with image issues than men.

When people stay that America encompasses many aspects of institutional racism, we are not appraising every white man as a racist. Rather, we are identifying the dialogue that exists, which is responsible for why the racism still pervades every fibre of North American society.
 
There is no "back pedaling". lol

I have got to run an errand real quick and then I'll get back to you.(like 20 mins)
 
dalamon said:
When people stay that America encompasses many aspects of institutional racism, we are not appraising every white man as a racist. Rather, we are identifying the dialogue that exists, which is responsible for why the racism still pervades every fibre of North American society.
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One of the reasons I've suspected that you're just an alt and not really a Canadian is that you'll write things like the quote above. 'America' and 'American politics' seems to denote the actions of The United States of America, even in sentences that try to explain "North American Society." Let me ask you, what is Canada's history with institutional racism? with relations between the sexes?

Or, are you using 'America' to denote the entire project of European expansion into the western hemisphere?



....Anyway, Canada always seems to get off so lightly in your diatribes.
 
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