Extend Favors. 3y-45mil

[ghsartin]

I think we have to be careful to no watch Favors through rosy glasses. According to basketball-reference.com, the difference between how the team performs (per 100 possessions) when he is on court in comparison with when he is not is only +0.5 this season. Last season, it was -1.9; the season before, -1.6; in 2015-16, zero; in 2014-15, +3.6; in 2013-14, -0.8; in 2012-13, zero; in 2011-12, -2.6; in 22 games with the Jazz in 2010-11, -8.1. That means Favors, throughout his career, had either a negligible or a negative impact in most seasons. I concede that Snyder has finally found a suitable role for him on offense: just finishing off passes without even dribbling most of the time — let's call it "the Clint Capela role". Not posting up meant less stress on his body — and he seems to be even regaining some of his spring lately —, but that also means he is strickly a role player now, and one with a history of healthy problems.

As a role player with no upside, he should be paid as a role player. I would offer him an extension of 3y-36mil for starters, and go as far as 4y-60mil, but with the last year as a team option — if that is possible.

 

[campaignist]

If the offense coming from the 1 and 3 spots is significantly upgraded, sure. If there is no sufficient upgrade at 4, sure.

Otherwise, as big a fan of favors as I am, keeping him is treading water.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

I was one of those guys in the "we need a stretch four club" at the cost of shipping him out. I was wrong. I have never been so happy to eat crow in my life. Derrick Favors has been a beast!

Favors has been an absolute beast this entire time. It took one bad game by Rudy for fans to see it.

Once again, Favors is in 5 of the top 6 5-man units that have played 25 minutes or more. The problem isnt DF it's tha Utah has Rudy. Any team would be lucky to have him on a cheap $15 million per year contract. He puts up Steven Adams value play and Adams gets 25-28 this and next two.

 

[LoPo]

Favors has been an absolute beast this entire time. It took one bad game by Rudy for fans to see it.

Once again, Favors is in 5 of the top 6 5-man units that have played 25 minutes or more. The problem isnt DF it's tha Utah has Rudy. Any team would be lucky to have him on a cheap $15 million per year contract. He puts up Steven Adams value play and Adams gets 25-28 this and next two.

Cmon man. @ghsartin just posted an amazing set of stats. Favors is a great dude, and a pretty good player. Comparing him to Adams is an insult to Adams. Favors could be a pretty good starting C, but Adams is a top 5 NBA center in my book.

I want to keep Favors because I primarily want him to provide 12 amazing C minutes when we need to rest Gobert. If he can also provide another good 10-12 minutes at PF each night, then great. I just don't think he should be paid what he is making this year. We had the luxury this year to give it, but we could miss out on some opportunities if we just pay him $17 again. Favors isn't getting $15+ on a multiyear guaranteed contract anywhere else so we should offer 3 years and $36 or maybe 4 years $50.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Cmon man. @ghsartin just posted an amazing set of stats. Favors is a great dude, and a pretty good player. Comparing him to Adams is an insult to Adams. Favors could be a pretty good starting C, but Adams is a top 5 NBA center in my book.

I want to keep Favors because I primarily want him to provide 12 amazing C minutes when we need to rest Gobert. If he can also provide another good 10-12 minutes at PF each night, then great. I just don't think he should be paid what he is making this year. We had the luxury this year to give it, but we could miss out on some opportunities if we just pay him $17 again. Favors isn't getting $15+ on a multiyear guaranteed contract anywhere else so we should offer 3 years and $36 or maybe 4 years $50.

Cool. 5-man unit stats are pretty good too.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Maybe LoPo can preach to us what stat matters more to team winning than how 5 men play together. IMO that stat, the one that shows who wins together and who doesn't, matters a lot. It's not a stat that can be used manipulatively easily, other than outlier scenarios from low quality of opponent on the floor (starter vs bench, injuries). Add enough units and minutes together and the manipulative use from low sample size gets washed away.

LoPo doesnt think 5-man unit stats are any good since they consistently shows Favors has value. He tried arguing last year that Utah's 2nd best unit with a whopping +110 over 447 minutes wasn't any good because it contained Favors and Gobert. For comparison, GSW's best lineup was +75 last year over 408 minutes and included 2 MVP's, a DPOY All Star, and a 4th All Star.

 

[LoPo]

Maybe LoPo can preach to us what stat matters more to team winning than how 5 men play together. IMO that stat, the one that shows who wins together and who doesn't, matters a lot. It's not a stat that can be used manipulatively easily, other than outlier scenarios from low quality of opponent on the floor (starter vs bench, injuries). Add enough units and minutes together and the manipulative use from low sample size gets washed away.

LoPo doesnt think 5-man unit stats are any good since they consistently shows Favors has value. He tried arguing last year that Utah's 2nd best unit with a whopping +110 over 447 minutes wasn't any good because it contained Favors and Gobert. For comparison, GSW's best lineup was +75 last year over 408 minutes and included 2 MVP's, a DPOY All Star, and a 4th All Star.

#1 - I don't preach

#2 - I'm a firm believer that stats could be found to support any side of almost any argument

#3 - when I see Favors and Gobert play alongside each other against a really good opponent in the playoffs who can go small, then I will have a little more faith in a lineup containing both of them. The Clippers without hurt Blake or the Thunder with worthless Melo worked in our favor. Houston and GS not so much. So far this year, Quin seems to play the two of them apart as much as he plays them together. If they were so incredible together, wouldn't he play all or most of their minutes together like he does with Ingles and Favors?

I am on record saying I like Favors and we need to keep him. I hesitate to think he will play a ton of minutes next to Gobert if we become a contender, but I still want to have him around regardless.

Go Jazz

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

#1 - I don't preach

#2 - I'm a firm believer that stats could be found to support any side of almost any argument

#3 - when I see Favors and Gobert play alongside each other against a really good opponent in the playoffs who can go small, then I will have a little more faith in a lineup containing both of them. The Clippers without hurt Blake or the Thunder with worthless Melo worked in our favor. Houston and GS not so much. So far this year, Quin seems to play the two of them apart as much as he plays them together. If they were so incredible together, wouldn't he play all or most of their minutes together like he does with Ingles and Favors?

I am on record saying I like Favors and we need to keep him. I hesitate to think he will play a ton of minutes next to Gobert if we become a contender, but I still want to have him around regardless.

Go Jazz

From what I've read from you, which is plenty, we are virtually in agreement on the DF situation. Where we disagree us his value/contribution so feel free to beat me up over my support for a great Utah Jazz player. I would have hated to see him traded away as a garbage throw in as you've proposed numerous times, but I also realize the need for a big's services isn't valued what it used to be and the league is somewhat flooded at center. Almost every team seems to have a DF type player these days - Nurcik in POR, Adam's in OKC - an untouchable C, can't afford one, or have nothing worth trading for him that matches salaries. So there's a good possibility Utah loses him for nothing just like the Millsap situation. I think that's unfortunate but it is what it is and I think he will make another team very happy. If he stays then Utah is stuck, but uve been saying we're stuck for a long time so I've resigned to the fact that this team is what we got so DL might as well squeeze what he can out of it. Maybe that's with Favors, maybe not.

Long enough ramble?

 

[LoPo]

From what I've read from you, which is plenty, we are virtually in agreement on the DF situation. Where we disagree us his value/contribution so feel free to beat me up over my support for a great Utah Jazz player. I would have hated to see him traded away as a garbage throw in as you've proposed numerous times, but I also realize the need for a big's services isn't valued what it used to be and the league is somewhat flooded at center. Almost every team seems to have a DF type player these days - Nurcik in POR, Adam's in OKC - an untouchable C, can't afford one, or have nothing worth trading for him that matches salaries. So there's a good possibility Utah loses him for nothing just like the Millsap situation. I think that's unfortunate but it is what it is and I think he will make another team very happy. If he stays then Utah is stuck, but uve been saying we're stuck for a long time so I've resigned to the fact that this team is what we got so DL might as well squeeze what he can out of it. Maybe that's with Favors, maybe not.

Long enough ramble?

My opinion on Favors has changed substantially this season. I used to think he was an awful fit and we should stop running anything for him. I thought he was overpaid and had value elsewhere which via trade could fetch us necessary value for our goals and needs.

However, I have come to realize that in addition to his off the court contributions, Quin has turned Favors into a very necessary component. In the past, we worried about running stuff for him to make him happy whereas this year, we give him the opportunity to make plays outside of set plays. Outside of Ingles and Favors PnR, most of his contributions come off of other stuff. When he roams free and hustles, he's the type guy who very often finds himself in perfect positions for lobs, putbacks, quick passes underneath, etc. When he's a very good spatially aware player. He doesn't excel when we force feed plays to him but when he just finds the play when things start breaking down.

But one thing where we disagree - Favors isn't our Jokic or Adams. Favors is our Haslem, Lamar Odom, Tristan Thompson or similar. He'll never be an all star, but he's a rock in the lockerroom and sometimes lifts the team when we need it. He's a career 11ppg, 7rpg guy. That's just who he is but he's still so valuable for us.

All that said, he's even more valuable to us if he takes $10-12 per year. Not only does he give us kind of a discount, but he in return also gets unconditional love from the fans because he is giving a discount.

 

[One Brow]

Cmon man. @ghsartin just posted an amazing set of stats.

You mean, the +/- stats that rely heavily on whom the player is in the rotation with?

 

[LoPo]

You mean, the +/- stats that rely heavily on whom the player is in the rotation with?

Yeah, I agree. It's an imperfect measure. However, Favors plays half his minutes with starters and the other half leading the 2nd unit. I would love to see a more detailed breakdown.

I'm on record now saying I want to keep Favors. 2 months ago, I thought we should keep Rubio at around $10 with Favors being expendable.


Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

My opinion on Favors has changed substantially this season. I used to think he was an awful fit and we should stop running anything for him. I thought he was overpaid and had value elsewhere which via trade could fetch us necessary value for our goals and needs.

However, I have come to realize that in addition to his off the court contributions, Quin has turned Favors into a very necessary component. In the past, we worried about running stuff for him to make him happy whereas this year, we give him the opportunity to make plays outside of set plays. Outside of Ingles and Favors PnR, most of his contributions come off of other stuff. When he roams free and hustles, he's the type guy who very often finds himself in perfect positions for lobs, putbacks, quick passes underneath, etc. When he's a very good spatially aware player. He doesn't excel when we force feed plays to him but when he just finds the play when things start breaking down.

But one thing where we disagree - Favors isn't our Jokic or Adams. Favors is our Haslem, Lamar Odom, Tristan Thompson or similar. He'll never be an all star, but he's a rock in the lockerroom and sometimes lifts the team when we need it. He's a career 11ppg, 7rpg guy. That's just who he is but he's still so valuable for us.

All that said, he's even more valuable to us if he takes $10-12 per year. Not only does he give us kind of a discount, but he in return also gets unconditional love from the fans because he is giving a discount.

Favors hasn't been used differently much at all. The vast majority of his shots are still within 5 feet. He may be getting about 1/2 mid-range shot a game less from the right elbow to the 3, but that's about it. He's playing less too so his shots there are going to be down anyway.