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Faster than I predicted

But the ACLU of Idaho states that "religious businesses" are exempt. Not sure what that definition is, but this one could fall under that definition.

If you run a religious bookstore, can you refuse to sell to gay customers? Atheists? Does it matter whether the bookstore is located in the mall or inside your church building (for example, my daughters church has a bookstore inside)?

My understanding is that there is a supposed bright line between "in a church" and "open to the public". So, a for-profit bookstore located inside a church might be able to legally discriminate, while one in the mall can not.
 
Facts have a liberal bias.

Given the views of many liberals on vaccinations, nuclear power, genetic engineering, capitalism, industrialization, and so on, I'm thankful that your statement isn't true. Not that conservatives are any better, of course.
 
Given the views of many liberals on vaccinations, nuclear power, genetic engineering, capitalism, industrialization, and so on, I'm thankful that your statement isn't true. Not that conservatives are any better, of course.

You'll find antivaccinationists on both side of the aisle, and in this country, mainstream liberals very much capitalists and industrialists. However, you're right about nuclear power.
 
But the ACLU of Idaho states that "religious businesses" are exempt. Not sure what that definition is, but this one could fall under that definition.

I would interpret that as being something like a thrift shop operated by, and for the benefit of, a recognized church. Or a bookstore, gift shop, whatever. But that's just a guess.
 
moevillini; said:
Plenty of people can preside over weddings who are not affiliated in any way, shape or form with religion.

Pretty clear you are working with a definition of "religion" that necessarily invokes organizational, legally-established status....

in reference to the statement you bolded, as far as in the execution of their duties officiating at a wedding, yes - - as far as their own personal beliefs, no. People can have all sorts of beliefs. Whatever their beliefs, and whether or not they fall into the highly organized, legally-established status, is not a factor in their officiating over a civil ceremony.

that's probably a pretty poorly worded paragraph, hopefully you understand.
 
well el oh el

so much for this discussion

Published: October 23, 2014 2:00PM
Last changed: October 23, 2014 5:57PM
ACLU: Northern Idaho wedding chapel now a religious organization

BOISE, Idaho (AP) — The American Civil Liberties Union of Idaho says it will not challenge a northern Idaho wedding chapel's refusal to conduct gay marriages because the chapel is no longer a public business.

Interim Executive Director Leo Morales says the Hitching Post became a nonprofit religious organization in Idaho nearly a month ago.

Morales in a news conference Thursday says that means the chapel no longer has to comply with the city of Coeur d'Alene's ordinance banning discrimination based on gender identity or sexual orientation.

A Christian religious rights legal organization filed a federal lawsuit last week against the city contending the chapel could be compelled to perform gay marriages under the city's anti-discrimination ordinance.

Gay marriage became legal in Idaho on Oct. 15.

https://www.dailyastorian.com/aclu-n-idaho-chapel-now-a-religious-corporation-da-ap-webfeeds-news-northwestd840fce603e54f0b8f9c7dcd122397d3

and
https://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/regional/2014/10/23/aclu-wedding-chapel-religious-organization/17790741/

and numerous additional sources
 
If there are consequences thar impair anyone's personal rights or finances or equal standing in society or in the courts, I agree with you.

For OB above a ways. . .
 
It's a quote directly from the article you linked. Thank you for verifying you don't even read the stuff you link to.

I read and quoted the relevant portion and linked to it as customary.

How was I to know you were going to read the entire Allen West's blog. lolz
 
However, they are claiming to serve the general public, while discriminating against members of the general public.
No one can force any clergy to officiate at any wedding in any venue, paid or otherwise.

They ain't claiming to serve the "general public" just the public that was allowed to get married by law. That is one of the biggest reasons for my resistance to redefine marriage by force of law because of the legal consequences for clergy and Christians in general to participate against their conscience and lose their livelihoods.
 
Pretty clear you are working with a definition of "religion" that necessarily invokes organizational, legally-established status.

I think the rhetoric OB and other progressives use is pretty tightly engineered to discredit personal convictions invoking God in any way, replacing them with legal technicalities which in effect make even personal beliefs legally prosecutable. It is really intolerance of religious conscience in individuals. People who reject statist rules are the problem. They are systematically reduced by law to criminal status.

OB might not have that intent, and might actually believe he is advocating a reasoned sort of society operating on better principles, but I am looking at what the net effect long-term will be if we have governments prosecuting individuals or business owners for not performing services they may deem objectionable on the level of their own personal conscience.

We have civil alternatives. . . . publicly-paid judges of various descriptions, widely available in all legal jurisdictions, who will perform legal weddings. The government does not need to regulate individuals on their own enterprise of serving any category of clientele in this manner. Nobody should have to do things they consider wrong. We even let some men called up for military service make a statement of conscientious objection so they won't need to kill people. Or at least we should, if we don't do this anymore.

That really was an excellent all encompassing response.

I was just going to post a quote by the lawyer in this case:

"People don't abandoned their first amendment freedoms when they open a business. That's not a precondition to owning and operating a business in American and it never has been." Jeremy Tedesco,
 
They ain't claiming to serve the "general public" just the public that was allowed to get married by law.

People are allowed by law to marry members of their own gender.

That is one of the biggest reasons for my resistance to redefine marriage by force of law because of the legal consequences for clergy and Christians in general to participate against their conscience and lose their livelihoods.

Yes, we are aware of your fears, which are completely unfounded and untrue.
 
If you serve the general public in a for-profit capacity, you are running a public space. No quotes needed.

Is that clearly defined in the NDO for the city in question? This was never clarified. The ACLU did mention "religious business", but never clarified what that meant.
 
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