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Favors and our offense

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zman1527

Well-Known Member
Can someone make the case that starting D Favs will improve our offense right now? And I mean a fully functioning healthy D Favs.

I see him with the starting group as hindering our offense: he will tend to clog the lane. And currently, I like the spacing we are getting with our current group and the number of good looks it is getting us in the lane or for kickouts. I love Diaw spacing the floor and making some sweet assists with the open room, and Rudy getting open for a lot of dunks. I see a lot of that going away with Favors in there. His best work is on the low post, but is that a big help? And he does not pass all that well. He does not shoot the 3 to space things, and while is 15-18 foot jumper is good I don't think other teams mind seeing the Jazz settle for that shot.

Shoot me down, but we can't keep everyone and I see Favs as a guy we can live without. Lyles can help, maybe Bolomboy or just some decent PF vet we can sign.
 
The problem is that Lyles isn't ready, and Diaw is too old to start. FA market doesn't show much for players who are better than Lyles and affordable. Who are we gonna be able to trade for that's affordable?
 
I am pretty disappointed with Lyles so far this season. He has his bright spots and moments. But, holy cow... In that Grizzlies game, he was painful to watch.
 
Favors post game and shooting game will likely return to a level that will complement Gobert just fine. Right now, I think the only thing that Diaw can really do better is pass. Gobert can cut just as effectively on either side of the block and still get the same scoring opportunities around the rim.

Lyles needs the same thing that Exum needs, only to a lesser extent: to become the man required to perform in a man's league. He should look to Hayward for the type of regimen that will get him there. But as of now, he isn't there.
 
Engorged On Unborn Gore said:
Favors post game and shooting game will likely return to a level that will complement Gobert just fine. Right now, I think the only thing that Diaw can really do better is pass. Gobert can cut just as effectively on either side of the block and still get the same scoring opportunities around the rim.
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How specifically does that work? How does Favors game on offense complement Gobert's? I don't see it, he takes up the same space. Diaw also shoots the 3 as well as pass better, 2 things that really DO complement Rudy's game.
 
zman1527 said:
How specifically does that work? How does Favors game on offense complement Gobert's? I don't see it, he takes up the same space. Diaw also shoots the 3 as well as pass better, 2 things that really DO complement Rudy's game.
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Favors can post up and pass out of the post. That is needed in our offense and we lack it right now. Favors is a good mid range shooter. I think Favors could shoot the 3 as well as Diaw is this season. Favors is a good slasher. Favors often demands a double team. That spaces the floor better than anything. Favors is great in the pick and roll. He passes out of that position well. People have forgotten how good Favors is when fully healthy. He also greatly improves our defense.
 
We're just knee jerking because we're forced to watch a gimpy, out-of-game-shape, Favors at the 5 (he's better at the 4) for 14 minutes. If Favors is able to get near 100% his defensive impact alone will be insane. I'm honestly not worried about his offense with Hill, Hayward, and Hood. While I have issue with his motor, he still the best PF on the team hands down and we'll be fine come mid-January.
 
JustTheTip said:
The problem is that Lyles isn't ready, and Diaw is too old to start. FA market doesn't show much for players who are better than Lyles and affordable. Who are we gonna be able to trade for that's affordable?
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I agree with this and with the OP.
 
Don't get me wrong, Favors and Gobert can work just fine together. To me, it's more about Favors or a really good PG. Exum isn't close to ready, Mack is just ok...age difference aside, I would rather pay for Hill than Favors. We're still good without Favors. We aren't as good without an actual PG.
 
zman1527 said:
How specifically does that work? How does Favors game on offense complement Gobert's? I don't see it, he takes up the same space. Diaw also shoots the 3 as well as pass better, 2 things that really DO complement Rudy's game.
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I generally agree with what Ron Mexico & Baby Peterzz have stated. I would add that your insistence that they take up the "same space" is only problematic if they are forced to position themselves on the same side of the block on every play, which they aren't. Either can cut from the opposite high post, or the opposite baseline, and frankly, Gobert's aerial game around the rim is custom built to complement a player who can pass well out of the post.

Favors is still playing his way up to game speed. His two way game will likely mitigate a drop in minutes for Diaw and his wizardry.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Favors can post up and pass out of the post. That is needed in our offense and we lack it right now. Favors is a good mid range shooter. I think Favors could shoot the 3 as well as Diaw is this season. Favors is a good slasher. Favors often demands a double team. That spaces the floor better than anything. Favors is great in the pick and roll. He passes out of that position well. People have forgotten how good Favors is when fully healthy. He also greatly improves our defense.
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You have not explained anything about how it works with Favors and Rudy. Yeah, we lack postup scoring right now, but do we need it? Does it work with Rudy in there? Rudy cannot draw his man out of the paint ya know, making it harder for Favors as well. I doubt Favors will ever shoot the 3 as well as Boris and there is not evidence for it. And Favors is only a decent passer, nothing special.

Out of all the responses, no one has explained how Rudy and Favors can work well together on offense. All you guys are saying is that Favors has some good offense ( no argument) but not how he and Rudy can work together and how it complements the whole team. I am worried that two bigs in the paint will not work well.
 
JustTheTip said:
Don't get me wrong, Favors and Gobert can work just fine together. To me, it's more about Favors or a really good PG. Exum isn't close to ready, Mack is just ok...age difference aside, I would rather pay for Hill than Favors. We're still good without Favors. We aren't as good without an actual PG.
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Agreed, and we are going to be able to keep everyone.
 
zman1527 said:
You have not explained anything about how it works with Favors and Rudy. Yeah, we lack postup scoring right now, but do we need it? Does it work with Rudy in there? Rudy cannot draw his man out of the paint ya know, making it harder for Favors as well. I doubt Favors will ever shoot the 3 as well as Boris and there is not evidence for it. And Favors is only a decent passer, nothing special.

Out of all the responses, no one has explained how Rudy and Favors can work well together on offense. All you guys are saying is that Favors has some good offense ( no argument) but not how he and Rudy can work together and how it complements the whole team. I am worried that two bigs in the paint will not work well.
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Diaw does not draw his man out to the 3 point line either. Favors will draw his man out to deep twos and even out to the three point line on picks. Favors gives players a lot more options off of a pick. He can pick and pop, pick and roll and can even pass well to the corner three. If Favors is in a pick and roll he crashes very hard to the rim and draws the other big man over. This leaves Rudy wide open. On the pick and pop plays he draws attention and leaves Rudy more open for easy put backs. Favors is also a better rebounder than Diaw and will create more offensive possessions. Favors does not just hunker down in the paint. But when he does post up he will draw in the double team and leave Rudy or someone on the outside wide open. A good offense player is better spacing than a worse one. Gobert and Favors passed well to each other. Favors cuts very well and Gobert passed to him well last season.

Look at last year, Rudy and Favors played well and complimented each other on offense and defense.
 
I think the biggest issue to me is that when Rudy leaves the floor teams attack the paint more. Favors can help eliminate this. Just because they are both on the team and both starting does not mean they will always be on the floor together. In an ideal world to me one of Favors or Gobert would always be on the floor. They they should spend a good amount of minutes on the floor without the other player. If they each play 32 minutes that means they can each play 16 minutes on the floor without the other player. I don't think they fit so poorly together that they hurt the offense. Especially if it's only for 16-20 minutes a game. Favors and Gobert do not occupy the same spots on the floor. Rudy sets screens and cuts to the basket down the lane, Favors occupies the post both low and high post and tends to cut more baseline. I find this an almost non issue.
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I however see no spot for Burks. I prefer the options we are currently playing and can't fathom where Burks is getting minutes from.
 
Rudy has been drawing multiple defenders around the paint for 10 games now. It almost looks like a sad game of musical chairs for his defenders. They can't stop him.

Adding an actual post player to the mix will certainly change things, but I'm not sure you are correct to infer that Favors presence will somehow sink the ship. No matter how good Rudy has been around the rim, Favors' offensive game is still far better than Gobert's.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Diaw does not draw his man out to the 3 point line either. Favors will draw his man out to deep twos and even out to the three point line on picks. Favors gives players a lot more options off of a pick. He can pick and pop, pick and roll and can even pass well to the corner three. If Favors is in a pick and roll he crashes very hard to the rim and draws the other big man over. This leaves Rudy wide open. On the pick and pop plays he draws attention and leaves Rudy more open for easy put backs. Favors is also a better rebounder than Diaw and will create more offensive possessions. Favors does not just hunker down in the paint. But when he does post up he will draw in the double team and leave Rudy or someone on the outside wide open. A good offense player is better spacing than a worse one. Gobert and Favors passed well to each other. Favors cuts very well and Gobert passed to him well last season.

Look at last year, Rudy and Favors played well and complimented each other on offense and defense.
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The only thing I would take issue with in there are the long twos, from 15 to 18 feet or so. I think other teams would be happy to Favors take those all night. He is not bad with them, but not good enough like an Aldrich or Griffin that it cause other teams to worry about it. They will give the Jazz that shot.
 
Jazz don't have to play like Golden State to win. The Jazz have built a team that will challenge Golden state this year if they can get fully healthy.

Watch and see if Golden State attacks Gobert and Favors in the paint ,I don't think they will! Golden State wants to bomb from 3 and run Utah off the court.The length and athleticism of Hill,Hood ,Hayward,Exum and Burks is the defense against Curry,Durant and Thompson.

I think Utah shows Golden State and the NBA tomorrow a new style of winning.Grinding long limbed defense against let them fly flying around offense meet.Utah to stun Golden State tomorrow in a statement.
 
The spacing concerns with Favors are totally overblown. You don't need 4 players at the 3 point line to have good spacing. Favors CAN play in the post, but his mid-range game is strong enough that he doesn't HAVE to be under the basket. When Hill gets back, we have Hill, Hood and Hayward who can all shoot from 3, with Favors able to hit the mid-range shot and Rudy patrolling around the basket. This idea that Favors has to be able to extend out to the 3 has always been overstated, but particularly so when you have 3 good 3 point shooters on the floor.

Lyles being a better fit next to Rudy has always been flawed in that Favors is just a flat out better player.

Oh, and come playoff time, a healthy Favors next to Rudy ****ing Gobert on defense is going to be the key to going deep in the playoffs.
 
gregbroncs said:
I think the biggest issue to me is that when Rudy leaves the floor teams attack the paint more. Favors can help eliminate this. Just because they are both on the team and both starting does not mean they will always be on the floor together. In an ideal world to me one of Favors or Gobert would always be on the floor. They they should spend a good amount of minutes on the floor without the other player. If they each play 32 minutes that means they can each play 16 minutes on the floor without the other player. I don't think they fit so poorly together that they hurt the offense. Especially if it's only for 16-20 minutes a game. Favors and Gobert do not occupy the same spots on the floor. Rudy sets screens and cuts to the basket down the lane, Favors occupies the post both low and high post and tends to cut more baseline. I find this an almost non issue.
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I however see no spot for Burks. I prefer the options we are currently playing and can't fathom where Burks is getting minutes from.
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Good post, but you lost me with the last part about Burks. Burks is a really good player, and once he's healthy, we are going to have to find minutes for him. Unfortunately, he's going to take minutes from Dante and Jingles, and I think we could cut a few minutes from Hood and Hayward, here and there. Regardless, we are going to have to find minutes for him somewhere.
 
Think Zack Randolph and Mark Gasol but faster and with better defense. That is what you get with Favors playing along side Gobert. I don't think Favs and Gobert are close to them offensive wise. But defense, they are way better. And that makes me hard.
 
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